Xpress Jet or Mesa

[FSB99]

seeing as it's just an entry-level airline job,

and the mesa contract assures that mesa will remain so. terrible attitude to have. i guess flying a jet at jet speeds in the flight levels from one city in the north american continent to another is entry level.

 

[Stinkbug]

i guess flying a jet at jet speeds in the flight levels from one city in the north american continent to another is entry level.

When said airline hires hundreds of pilots with less than 1000 hours (and has a history of turning down more qualified pilots by the truckloads), I'm sorry but yes I consider it an entry level job. Flying a beat up cessna twin in crappy weather across the Rockies is probably one of the more challenging flying jobs out there, but I believe most would consider that an entry-level job as well. The fact is that mainline heavy jet flying is still the ultimate for pay, days off, and quality of life, in my opinion. Because of this, they're the most sought after and are not, by virtue of the competition, entry-level jobs.

You may be right about my attitude. I'm sorry if it offended those of you trying to make yours a better workplace. If you want to raise the bar, that's a noble cause for sure, but until you put your money where your mouth is, why continue to hurl insults at your fellow pilots at Mesa? You're not any better than them; they too fly new jets across the continent and into Mexico and Canada. Yes, they do it for a few bucks less than the industry average and weak work rules. I'm disappointed with their performance in the last negotiation, but I'm confident they'll redeem themselves on the next go-around. By and large they're still a good group of guys and gals.

Those of you who are attempting to raise the bar, again I wish you luck. But I'll reiterate that until you produce results, maybe the professional thing to do the next time you feel like calling a Mesa pilot fish sh!t in pond scum is to keep your mouth shut.

 

[dogg]

Shroom, you need to ask yourself where you want to end up. If you goal is to work for a regional then pick the best one that suits your lifestyle and your needs and do what it takes to get hired there and don't worry about upgrade time. If your goal is to end up at a national or a major than the only thing that matters is PIC time and you should go to the quickest upgrade, fly your a$$ off, become a check airman etc... don't put a lot of stock in the babble that the loudmouths on this board push every day......

 

[Sniper@YourFeet]

If you have been paying attention, you would realize that XJT
will have the best paying contract and the best work rules in the industry when the contract is done.

Really? That would get my attention.

All rates will be above comair and the work rules will be spectacular.

'Convair', your fellow XJT pilot, 'mcpickle', says it best:

this is the biggest reason that airlines try to keep us down. Because of these types of attitudes and expectations, or lack there of.

Commair is NOT the bar, buddy. Delta is. It apears 'mcpickle' already knows this.

Again, Mr. 'Mcpickle':

I've had other trips that go from Toronto to IAH. Thats major airline flying. And the girls and boys at every other "regional" do similar flying. This is no longer your fathers commuter airline. It is not an entry level job.

Point is we are airline professionals that are doing mainline flying.

That's right, you are professionals doing mainline flying, and you have career expectations like them too, now, apparently. Why then do use Commair as 'the bar'?

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

Beware of choosing a company solely for a quick upgrade. I chose Coex over Comair for the 2 year upgrade to jet CA and 3.5 years later I'm junior to where I was after 9 months with the company. That said, in the new contract our FOs will make more than prop CAs at Mesa so it won't be too bad for anyone getting hired here in the future. Just remember, expect to be at a "regional" for 5-10 years if you're lucky. That time will be a lot more tolerable at Coex.

 

[Ben Franklin]

When said airline hires hundreds of pilots with less than 1000 hours (and has a history of turning down more qualified pilots by the truckloads), I'm sorry but yes I consider it an entry level job.

So, then by your logic UNITED AIRLINES is an entry level job?

During the mid to late 1990's UAL hired hundreds and hundreds of women and "minorites" with less than 1000 hours TT and that history that you speak of.

You are probably so ignorant that you aren't even aware that there are many of these pilots who have signed letters saying that they will never upgrade at UAL, as they have failed too many times in the past.

You are also probably so ignorant that you don't even know that in the 1970's, UAL hired people off the street with "0" time and trained them to Commercial standards in house and then put them on line.

You should think before you speak.


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[dogg]

Ben, you really shouldn't pass on angry rumors from your uptight friends that did not get hired by United. It was the 60's when United was hiring people with little or no time and it was mostly average white boys.... There were a few (less than 100) special deal pilots hired and yes some of them happened to be female or minority and no there are not any "special letters" preventing upgrade from that group any more than there are for other groups..........so get you facts straight especially if you are going to go by the name Ben Franklin..........

 

[Stinkbug]

It's no secret that women and minorities have at times been given preferential treatment for coveted jobs, airline or otherwise. I don't have any desire to get into an affirmative action discussion, though.

As for your reference to the hiring situation of the '70s, yes I'm somewhat familiar I guess (although I was in diapers then), but I can confidently say that this ain't the '70s Ben. Neither can the climate of the mid to late 90's be fairly compared to that of the '70s. While I don't deny that the hiring was going great guns in the latter part of the last decade, there were still plenty of qualified pilots looking for jobs who'd been stung by the slowdown in the early 90's. I don't have the greatest memory, but I don't seem to remember United, Delta, American or even AirTran hiring 600 hour pilots in 1998, when I started my career. Places like COEX were getting them all. These pilots were newcomers to the industry, hence my choice of the words "entry-level".

I don't have anything against COEX. I think you've got a lot going for you as a pilot group. I do take issue with people who shoot off at the mouth daily on this board about people "bringing the industry down", and even more vicious language in particular when it comes to Mesa pilots, when they haven't provided one shred of evidence that they're any better. And even if you guys do manage to produce an industry-leading contract, why not just be happy about it and leave it at that. It's childish and unprofessional to belittle your fellow pilots to make yourselves feel better.

One more thing, since you brought up the '90s. I distinctly remember a time back then when COEX was just another crappy PFT turboprop operator with pitiful wages, belligerent managment and an angry pilot group. Sounds a little like the current Mesa, doesn't it? Except they were never PFT and are lucky to be flying jet equipment now. Yeah, you guys have come a long way, and I do hope your prophecies for a great contract come true. But in a few years it'll be Mesa's turn. I hope some of you can get off your high horse when that time comes and offer them a little support.

 

[mckpickle]

Stinkbug, you are absolutely correct. When I was hired in 97 we were PFT, angry and under Nazi rule. It was not a nice place to be. I started at 13.49/hr. It was most unpleasant. The difference between us and MESA is that we rejected our first TA. We didn't fall to the threats that management made. They too told us that our first TA was all they could do. They too told us of the doom and gloom. And remember we were only a few years removed from Ornstien having had the helm.

The diference was that we said no. Granted our contract 97 was not the best in the world but is was leaps and bounds better that C95. It was much better than the diference the new MESA contract brought. We didn't not sell out or get scared. We fought for what we were worth. Thats the difference.

 

[WileE]

ok but...

I don't know the details but was the TA you turned down supported by your entire MEC and all the ALPA reps that were supposed to be "helping" you? Mesa's was. It basically fell into two camps, those that believed the MEC's and the union and those that didn't.