Xpress Jet or Mesa

[Fly2Scuba]

A very valid point and one that not enough people are thinking about. I'd like to say that with one pilots union representing the Continental "Brand" name that our union brothers at CAL will toe the line so that all CAL or Express pilots end up performing CAL Brand flying. BUT we see how the CAL pilots continue to infight and shoot themselves in the foot. Kind of sad that we are counting on them. So basically ya we're fukced

Fortuanetly the trouble makers (super scabs) at CAL will be retiring in the next few years. My glass is half full theory is our ExpressJet contract will raise the bar back to where it should of been in the first place, Express will compete as the low fare carrier division of CAL, and will buy out another carrier.
If Mesa was a temporary step for someone, then yea go for it. Otherwise, I coudn't fathom the idea of being at a place like that for more than a couple years. The grass is always greener on the other side except in this case.

 

[WileE]

Don't do it for a future contract.

Never go anywhere based on what the next contract is going to be. If you can't stand to work there for what it is now, don't go regardless of which airline it is. CoEx might be the next comair in a couple years when their contract comes up or they might be taking concessions to keep their jobs. No one can really say with anything like certainty what will be up with the economy of the airlines in a couple years. Mesa looked like it would be in a great negotiating position summer of '00, but with the economic collapse of codeshares and especially 9/11, the entire situation changed for the work group and they were lucky to hold what they had and get rid of the alter-ego airline being built. CoEx might be in a similar situation or it might not but it does have a lot of eggs in that CAL basket, at least Mesa has diversified their risk considerably. I'd base your decision on what you can live with right now.

 

[Sphincter Boy]

The point is that the XJET rates are 6 YEARS old and the Mesa rates are 6 MONTHS old, yet they are virtually the same! Ever heard of inflation? Cost of living increase? Get a clue, dude. Your contract sucks and it affects everyone in the industry, present and future. Now run along before Johnnie O spanks you again!

LOL...you learn that boy

 

[Obi-Wan]

Fortuanetly the trouble makers (super scabs) at CAL will be retiring in the next few years.

the last scab retires at 2026.

 

[mckpickle]

the last scab retires at 2026.

Im not sure if that is true. That would mean that guy got hired at age 19. Even if it were most are due to retire in the next 7 years. Thank god.

 

[mckpickle]

And Mesa's 3rd yr jet pay is $30.57. What's your point? The fact is that Mesa first, second, and thrid yr jet pay is better then at Coex but Mcpu$$y would have you think that Coex is the end all be all to all other regionals. What ever. I have a good friend that is a 2nd yr FO(for pay, 4th yr seniority) at Coex and he just got off a two yr furlough and can't even hold weekends off on reserve in Newerk! At Mesa he would have been holding a line from day one (Phl and Den) and would be a 4th yr CA because he wouldn't have been on the street. So instead of making $27+ an hr getting abused on reserve he would be making $56+ and holding a line.

I'm not trying to say that Mesa is better then anyone else (I would have to be a good fiction writer to do that) but I am sick of people that have no idea about Mesa constatly taking shots. Give it a break or do some REAL research first. -Bean

dude just because you happen to JO's beotch don't blame me. Mesa (and ALPA for that matter) are helping to bring the profession down. (Alpa never should have approved your contract). I'm not talking about killing the golded goose I'm just talking about fair wages and safe work rules for a dignified profession. And MESA did not do that. They could have. They could have learned from the mistakes that Eastern and others have made.

Now I thought a Beech captain at MESA was making about 29K a year. Thats a bit less than a FO here for 2 years. Now I don't believe that coex is the "end all and be all" by any means. I have a lot of respect for others. Comair who would not be bullied. Eagle who can't get a break, ACA who told you and United to go sh1t in your hats. There are many good ones. But Mesa is not one. So if you wanna get into name calling I live in NH. I take it you live in Boston (which I bet I get to see more than you). Lets hang out, I'll buy the beer.

 

[Stinkbug]

McPickle,

If what you say is true, it seems that a three year COEX FO and a three year 1900 captain at Mesa make about the same. Personally, I'd rather bide my time in the left seat of the 1900 while waiting for a jet seat to open up, but that's just me. I think your attitude toward the Mesa folks is a bit harsh, seeing as it's just an entry-level airline job, same as ExpressJet. It's not like you guys have a Delta-style contract to wave in their faces as you hurl insults at them. Heck, you don't even have a Comair-style contract, and if you get one I'll be surprised. I don't have a dog in this fight, though, so I'll bow out now. I do wish you guys at Xjet the best in your contract negotiations.

 

[Convair]

If you have been paying attention, you would realize that XJT
will have the best paying contract and the best work rules in the industry when the contract is done. All rates will be above comair and the work rules will be spectacular. This will only raise the bar for all of you and you can thank the coex NC and the management of coex for being progressive. The Coex pilot group is a solid group and will make sure it remains that way. Just look at the stats. Also, do you think ALPA would have their head of representation doing the negotiating if they thought otherwise??

With 274 RJ's in 2006, the company will be a force to be reckon with. Maybe you should wish they purchase you!!

 

[mckpickle]

seeing as it's just an entry-level airline job, same as ExpressJet.

Not trying to slam you here but this is the biggest reason that airlines try to keep us down. Because of these types of attitudes and expectations, or lack there of.

The trip I start sunday takes me from EWR down south, over to IAH and then into Mexico by sunday night. I've had other trips that go from Toronto to IAH. Thats major airline flying. And the girls and boys at every other "regional" do similar flying. This is no longer your fathers commuter airline. It is not an entry level job. Im 30 and even with a letter saying I can go to CAL may just stay put here. (after I smoke some more crack maybe).

Point is we are airline professionals that are doing mainline flying. We are not asking to get more money than astronauts and only work 6 days a month. We are just asking to be payed a fair wage. Our regionals are a career for many of us and no longer a stepping stone.

 

[WileE]

Convair.

Gotta love that blind optimism. Hope you're right.

 

[FSB99]

seeing as it's just an entry-level airline job,

and the mesa contract assures that mesa will remain so. terrible attitude to have. i guess flying a jet at jet speeds in the flight levels from one city in the north american continent to another is entry level.

 

[Stinkbug]

i guess flying a jet at jet speeds in the flight levels from one city in the north american continent to another is entry level.

When said airline hires hundreds of pilots with less than 1000 hours (and has a history of turning down more qualified pilots by the truckloads), I'm sorry but yes I consider it an entry level job. Flying a beat up cessna twin in crappy weather across the Rockies is probably one of the more challenging flying jobs out there, but I believe most would consider that an entry-level job as well. The fact is that mainline heavy jet flying is still the ultimate for pay, days off, and quality of life, in my opinion. Because of this, they're the most sought after and are not, by virtue of the competition, entry-level jobs.

You may be right about my attitude. I'm sorry if it offended those of you trying to make yours a better workplace. If you want to raise the bar, that's a noble cause for sure, but until you put your money where your mouth is, why continue to hurl insults at your fellow pilots at Mesa? You're not any better than them; they too fly new jets across the continent and into Mexico and Canada. Yes, they do it for a few bucks less than the industry average and weak work rules. I'm disappointed with their performance in the last negotiation, but I'm confident they'll redeem themselves on the next go-around. By and large they're still a good group of guys and gals.

Those of you who are attempting to raise the bar, again I wish you luck. But I'll reiterate that until you produce results, maybe the professional thing to do the next time you feel like calling a Mesa pilot fish sh!t in pond scum is to keep your mouth shut.

 

[dogg]

Shroom, you need to ask yourself where you want to end up. If you goal is to work for a regional then pick the best one that suits your lifestyle and your needs and do what it takes to get hired there and don't worry about upgrade time. If your goal is to end up at a national or a major than the only thing that matters is PIC time and you should go to the quickest upgrade, fly your a$$ off, become a check airman etc... don't put a lot of stock in the babble that the loudmouths on this board push every day......

 

[Sniper@YourFeet]

If you have been paying attention, you would realize that XJT
will have the best paying contract and the best work rules in the industry when the contract is done.

Really? That would get my attention.

All rates will be above comair and the work rules will be spectacular.

'Convair', your fellow XJT pilot, 'mcpickle', says it best:

this is the biggest reason that airlines try to keep us down. Because of these types of attitudes and expectations, or lack there of.

Commair is NOT the bar, buddy. Delta is. It apears 'mcpickle' already knows this.

Again, Mr. 'Mcpickle':

I've had other trips that go from Toronto to IAH. Thats major airline flying. And the girls and boys at every other "regional" do similar flying. This is no longer your fathers commuter airline. It is not an entry level job.

Point is we are airline professionals that are doing mainline flying.

That's right, you are professionals doing mainline flying, and you have career expectations like them too, now, apparently. Why then do use Commair as 'the bar'?

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

Beware of choosing a company solely for a quick upgrade. I chose Coex over Comair for the 2 year upgrade to jet CA and 3.5 years later I'm junior to where I was after 9 months with the company. That said, in the new contract our FOs will make more than prop CAs at Mesa so it won't be too bad for anyone getting hired here in the future. Just remember, expect to be at a "regional" for 5-10 years if you're lucky. That time will be a lot more tolerable at Coex.

 

[Ben Franklin]

When said airline hires hundreds of pilots with less than 1000 hours (and has a history of turning down more qualified pilots by the truckloads), I'm sorry but yes I consider it an entry level job.

So, then by your logic UNITED AIRLINES is an entry level job?

During the mid to late 1990's UAL hired hundreds and hundreds of women and "minorites" with less than 1000 hours TT and that history that you speak of.

You are probably so ignorant that you aren't even aware that there are many of these pilots who have signed letters saying that they will never upgrade at UAL, as they have failed too many times in the past.

You are also probably so ignorant that you don't even know that in the 1970's, UAL hired people off the street with "0" time and trained them to Commercial standards in house and then put them on line.

You should think before you speak.


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[dogg]

Ben, you really shouldn't pass on angry rumors from your uptight friends that did not get hired by United. It was the 60's when United was hiring people with little or no time and it was mostly average white boys.... There were a few (less than 100) special deal pilots hired and yes some of them happened to be female or minority and no there are not any "special letters" preventing upgrade from that group any more than there are for other groups..........so get you facts straight especially if you are going to go by the name Ben Franklin..........

 

[Stinkbug]

It's no secret that women and minorities have at times been given preferential treatment for coveted jobs, airline or otherwise. I don't have any desire to get into an affirmative action discussion, though.

As for your reference to the hiring situation of the '70s, yes I'm somewhat familiar I guess (although I was in diapers then), but I can confidently say that this ain't the '70s Ben. Neither can the climate of the mid to late 90's be fairly compared to that of the '70s. While I don't deny that the hiring was going great guns in the latter part of the last decade, there were still plenty of qualified pilots looking for jobs who'd been stung by the slowdown in the early 90's. I don't have the greatest memory, but I don't seem to remember United, Delta, American or even AirTran hiring 600 hour pilots in 1998, when I started my career. Places like COEX were getting them all. These pilots were newcomers to the industry, hence my choice of the words "entry-level".

I don't have anything against COEX. I think you've got a lot going for you as a pilot group. I do take issue with people who shoot off at the mouth daily on this board about people "bringing the industry down", and even more vicious language in particular when it comes to Mesa pilots, when they haven't provided one shred of evidence that they're any better. And even if you guys do manage to produce an industry-leading contract, why not just be happy about it and leave it at that. It's childish and unprofessional to belittle your fellow pilots to make yourselves feel better.

One more thing, since you brought up the '90s. I distinctly remember a time back then when COEX was just another crappy PFT turboprop operator with pitiful wages, belligerent managment and an angry pilot group. Sounds a little like the current Mesa, doesn't it? Except they were never PFT and are lucky to be flying jet equipment now. Yeah, you guys have come a long way, and I do hope your prophecies for a great contract come true. But in a few years it'll be Mesa's turn. I hope some of you can get off your high horse when that time comes and offer them a little support.

 

[mckpickle]

Stinkbug, you are absolutely correct. When I was hired in 97 we were PFT, angry and under Nazi rule. It was not a nice place to be. I started at 13.49/hr. It was most unpleasant. The difference between us and MESA is that we rejected our first TA. We didn't fall to the threats that management made. They too told us that our first TA was all they could do. They too told us of the doom and gloom. And remember we were only a few years removed from Ornstien having had the helm.

The diference was that we said no. Granted our contract 97 was not the best in the world but is was leaps and bounds better that C95. It was much better than the diference the new MESA contract brought. We didn't not sell out or get scared. We fought for what we were worth. Thats the difference.

 

[WileE]

ok but...

I don't know the details but was the TA you turned down supported by your entire MEC and all the ALPA reps that were supposed to be "helping" you? Mesa's was. It basically fell into two camps, those that believed the MEC's and the union and those that didn't.