XJT Upgrade <2yrs

[Truckdriver]

Latest System bid has a few fellas hired in Feb 04 as EWR Captains. We went from 5 year upgrades to 20 month upgrades in the space of a few months. These guys will be on reserve for eternity, but they will be logging PIC time at XJT in under 2 years. If CAL takes more XJT guys after the PIG group is gone, look for that number to get closer to 15-18 months.

 

[Tooslow]

yep, missed it by 61 #s

 

[CFIfornow]

Wow! turned down class mid '04 for XJ. Sucks to be me.

 

[Flechas]

That bid is effective April 06, so we still have to wait and see. And there are over 100 FOs that have been able to hold captain for a while but choose to stay in the right seat for QOL. Good for these peopleand good for allof us, but for anyone ater them, unless CAL takes a lot more people, upgrade willbe 4 years.

 

[mckpickle]

Holding CA on a paper bid and sitting in the left seat are two different things. That guy won't go to training for 3,4 or 5 months and then have 165 FO's senior to him. If they only open 15 captain slots on every bid and some of the 165 FO's decide to upgrade this guy won't see captain for a very very long time.

 

[ATRCA]

Yes, yes, yes,

Lets just $hit on their parade why don't we. No matter how you spin it its cool for them.

 

[celloman]

One also has to remember that all of the guys and galls hired in early '04 were hired or maybe in class by 9/11. They just sat on the fence and worked another job for a few years waiting in the "pool" for XJT to start hiring again.

Its nice to see movement now...... because it will slow down!

 

[Nova]

Its nice to see movement now...... because it will slow down!

Slow down like a glacier. PS told a recent upgrade class that he expected only 260 more upgrades before those doors on the training center close. I don't know if any of the upgrades on our last perm bid are included in that 260 but end of April is when we'll see the last of them.

<now, this precludes any decision on CAL/XJT hiring after the PIGs are gone>

 

[Paul R. Smith]

I was sitting at seniority #1400 about a year ago
Now I'm at 1150. Sure would not be out of the question to break 1000 once all the pref guys go over. It seems I would have to in order to hold a friggin line in CLE.:smash:

 

[nimtz]

Slow down like a glacier. PS told a recent upgrade class that he expected only 260 more upgrades before those doors on the training center close. I don't know if any of the upgrades on our last perm bid are included in that 260 but end of April is when we'll see the last of them.

<now, this precludes any decision on CAL/XJT hiring after the PIGs are gone>

Or we actually get normal attrition not associated with CAL. :nuts: I know that would be a revolutionary concept for XJT.

 

[Truckdriver]

Holding CA on a paper bid and sitting in the left seat are two different things. That guy won't go to training for 3,4 or 5 months and then have 165 FO's senior to him. If they only open 15 captain slots on every bid and some of the 165 FO's decide to upgrade this guy won't see captain for a very very long time.

I realize this. Holding captain on a paper at 20 months is still better than holding captain on paper at 5 years. The intent of my post was to show that fast upgrades may actually return at XJT. Once the PIGS are gone, CAL can take as many XJT guys as they want. Maybe they will take more than what they are taking now which would actually drive the upgrades down to 18 months. Taking XJT guys would lower overall labor costs at XJT possibly allowing XJT to lower block hour costs they charge CAL. Both companies know this and if XJT is looking at controlling costs, I'm sure they have gone across the hall down at Smith street and visitied about this concept. I hear it has been cheaper for CAL to train XJT guys so both companies would win. If it saves them both money, they might just actually do it.

 

[mckpickle]

I realize this. Holding captain on a paper at 20 months is still better than holding captain on paper at 5 years. The intent of my post was to show that fast upgrades may actually return at XJT. Once the PIGS are gone, CAL can take as many XJT guys as they want. Maybe they will take more than what they are taking now which would actually drive the upgrades down to 18 months. Taking XJT guys would lower overall labor costs at XJT possibly allowing XJT to lower block hour costs they charge CAL. Both companies know this and if XJT is looking at controlling costs, I'm sure they have gone across the hall down at Smith street and visitied about this concept. I hear it has been cheaper for CAL to train XJT guys so both companies would win. If it saves them both money, they might just actually do it.

I do hope you are right my friend! It is a very good point about lowering our unit cost to CAL. It is something they can help us do by hiring more of our guys. However having been here for the time I have I know one thing about CAL. They need to hate someone. Kinda like the retarded kid that everyone picked on. They've been beat up for 20 years and they need to dislike someone. For the last 5 years that someone has been XJT/COEX whatever you want to call us. I honestly think many of those guys....including the ones that make decissions enjoy the donkey punch they give us. JMO

 

[Millls22]

Got a question for all your XJT guys. Just got hired there the other day. I hear the EWR is the most junior base..How long before I could get a line there?? Also, how long before I could just get to CLE and be on reserve if necessary?? How long to hold a line at CLE too??? Not quite sure if I want to leave the company I'm at now, they are spiraling down hill fast though...

 

[SMOE]

I do hope you are right my friend! It is a very good point about lowering our unit cost to CAL. It is something they can help us do by hiring more of our guys. However having been here for the time I have I know one thing about CAL. They need to hate someone. Kinda like the retarded kid that everyone picked on. They've been beat up for 20 years and they need to dislike someone. For the last 5 years that someone has been XJT/COEX whatever you want to call us. I honestly think many of those guys....including the ones that make decissions enjoy the donkey punch they give us. JMO

The scabs calling the shots have to retire sooner or later...

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

Got a question for all your XJT guys. Just got hired there the other day. I hear the EWR is the most junior base..How long before I could get a line there?? Also, how long before I could just get to CLE and be on reserve if necessary?? How long to hold a line at CLE too??? Not quite sure if I want to leave the company I'm at now, they are spiraling down hill fast though...

I wouldn't count on holding anything in Cleveland, not even reserve, if you're a new-hire. Latest word is lines in Cleveland will be cut from about 150 down to 90 next year. Newark is just a crapshoot. Some new guys only spent 2 months on reserve this year, but that is not likely to continue forever.

 

[Nova]

I was sitting at seniority #1400 about a year ago
Now I'm at 1150. Sure would not be out of the question to break 1000 once all the pref guys go over. It seems I would have to in order to hold a friggin line in CLE.:smash:

Breaking the 1000 mark won't get you very close to a line in CLE especially if the following happens...

Latest word is lines in Cleveland will be cut from about 150 down to 90 next year.

This is the second time I've heard this new rumor in the last few days. The first time I heard it was 100 lines for CLE next year. Where's the rumor coming from and what would be the driving force behind the 33% reduction?

A few months ago one of the line builders was saying that CLE might hit 150-160 next year but it'll never get any higher than that. Now there's talk of a large reduction?

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Yeah I heard that too. Very reliable source too...
I can be in denial though can't I?


THIS THREAD HAS not BEEN HIJACKED FOR ALL THOSE CONCERNED

 

[Superpilot92]

maybe its a new base opening?? Just a thought any guesses??? we do need a west coast base.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Breaking the 1000 mark won't get you very close to a line in CLE especially if the following happens...



This is the second time I've heard this new rumor in the last few days. The first time I heard it was 100 lines for CLE next year. Where's the rumor coming from and what would be the driving force behind the 33% reduction?

A few months ago one of the line builders was saying that CLE might hit 150-160 next year but it'll never get any higher than that. Now there's talk of a large reduction?

I mean I know CLE sux but why reduce it more? We already have a schedule only a mother could love. We have been reducing for 4 years straight. This used to be the mecca for us. Almost 190 lines on the jet and the ATRs were still around and that was after the beech 1900 left. A ton of banks were eliminated last time and the airport is pretty much done for XJT by 8pm.

Frustrated:crying:

 

[Paul R. Smith]

maybe its a new base opening?? Just a thought any guesses??? we do need a west coast base.

Start holding your breath, all the kids are doing it these days. Supposedly its really cool.

Maybe I'm just gonna wake up from this dream and find myself flying for Alaska. :nuts: That would be nice.

 

[xjlifer]

Got a ? for ya. How can hiring XJT people at CAL hold down their (XJT) cost's. Way back when NWA was hiring we always heard they did not want to hire XJ or 9E folks cause then XJ and 9E had to hire and replace costing more than if they (NWA) hired from elsewere.

 

[Millls22]

So about my question before, there is not even a chance of holding a line at EWR after about 6 to 8 months. What is IAH like...I have been on reserve for a little over a year now at my current regional, I was under the impression that our reserve and scheduling system was the worst out there..

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Got a ? for ya. How can hiring XJT people at CAL hold down their (XJT) cost's. Way back when NWA was hiring we always heard they did not want to hire XJ or 9E folks cause then XJ and 9E had to hire and replace costing more than if they (NWA) hired from elsewere.

I'm not expert but I believe its partly due to the fact that we are sending most of our guys directly to CAL. They leave from the top of our list in large numbers so we lose relatively high tenure (8-10 year) guys making more per hour and having 3 weeks vacation. We replace them with relatively junior captains with less vacation and make much less per hour. And the company does not have as much to match on the 401k and less on the b-plan. I could go on but I'm just speculatin anyway but this is how it was once explained to me by a union rep.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

So about my question before, there is not even a chance of holding a line at EWR after about 6 to 8 months. What is IAH like...I have been on reserve for a little over a year now at my current regional, I was under the impression that our reserve and scheduling system was the worst out there..

Trust me, as far as scheduling systems go, some may be better but they all suck.

 

[Superpilot92]

Reserve system isnt that bad but its alot better if you live in one of the base cities.

It would benefit both companies if CAL would take more of our pilots. Costs go down plus easy transition for our guys that are already based in one of CALS bases. JMHO

 

[xjlifer]

I'm not expert but I believe its partly due to the fact that we are sending most of our guys directly to CAL. They leave from the top of our list in large numbers so we lose relatively high tenure (8-10 year) guys making more per hour and having 3 weeks vacation. We replace them with relatively junior captains with less vacation and make much less per hour. And the company does not have as much to match on the 401k and less on the b-plan. I could go on but I'm just speculatin anyway but this is how it was once explained to me by a union rep.

Well that makes sense..kinda what XJ is trying to do in BK!

 

[Superpilot92]

So about my question before, there is not even a chance of holding a line at EWR after about 6 to 8 months. What is IAH like...I have been on reserve for a little over a year now at my current regional, I was under the impression that our reserve and scheduling system was the worst out there..

if you get on now probably, hold a line in ewr in 8-9 months and remember 2 of those months are while in training.

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

The schedule cut (gut?) in Cleveland is no rumor. Reason is CAL is not making any money there. Peter Sailer is telling it to the upgrade classes. And the thread has not really been hijacked. A big schedule reduction will affect upgrade times. Another thing that's no rumor is that the number of lines in Newark is going to vary a lot next year. For whatever reason crew planning has not been happy with keeping the number of lines relatively consistant, so next year there will be greater swings of the number of lines each month. Could mean holding a line one month, a relief the next, and flirting with reserve the next. Back to a line the next.

Now for the thread hijack.

I have a question. If you look at a website called airlinepilotcentral.com they say that CAL and ALPA are in negotiations for additional pilot bases in Florida, the Northeast (?), and the West Coast. Does anyone know if that is accurate? Or is it just BS CAL is putting out there to get more guys to apply to go work in their crap bases? If it is true, it may mean an XJT base in one or more of those places. Has anyone heard any real information?

 

[Superpilot92]

Thats what i was saying. The west coast is pretty much where CAL still has room to grow in the USA so i think its only a matter of time before it happens.

Could we merge with Horizon? Who knows i sure dont but i wish i did.

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

We won't merge with Horizon, but CAL may look to get turboprop feed from them out there. They could probably offer very attractive rates with a large prop fleet, and high fuel prices.