XJT to fly UAL

[dojetdriver]

Plain and simple, XJT undercut ASA/Skywest for that flying.

Did Skywest bid on that flying?

I've never doubted that they undercut ASA, but do you have actual, credible proof to back that statement up? As far as the 10 CPA aircraft go, yep, it wasn't a profit center.

The 13 pro rate aircraft bled money like crazy.

 

[79%N1]

My proof is that when the ASA base was closed and the flying went to XJT, the reason given was that Skywest would not fly the LA flying at a low, or nearly zero profit margin, and that XJT elected to do just that in order to get the flying.

 

[dojetdriver]

My proof is that when the ASA base was closed and the flying went to XJT, the reason given was that Skywest would not fly the LA flying at a low, or nearly zero profit margin, and that XJT elected to do just that in order to get the flying.

I think your overlooking that at that time, it was forbidden per the agreement with UAL that SkyWest fly Delcon out of LAX. Like I said, at that time. That stipulation was later dropped with UAL.

So I'll ask you again, do you have ACTUAL proof? IF the flying was done at zero profit or at a narrow profit margin, it's not like XJT had to adjust labor contracts, take pay cuts, undercut other labor groups at other airlines, and basically whore themselves out like a certain company did with 70/90 seat rates to secure some UAL flying a while ago, is it?

 

[79%N1]

That is why ASA was doing the Skywest flying out of LAX. One company. I think that is what you are overlooking. Company memo stated that SKYW would not fly the LAX flying for the slim profit margin, and XJT was doing it to get their planes in the air. If you want some secret company documents faxed to you for your proof, I can't produce them.

 

[dojetdriver]

That is why ASA was doing the Skywest flying out of LAX. One company. I think that is what you are overlooking.

Not overlooking anything. One company, but two different operating certificates. One with restrictions with UAL, the other, not.

Company memo stated that SKYW would not fly the LAX flying for the slim profit margin, and XJT was doing it to get their planes in the air.

Not sure what you're getting at here. You're kinda talking in circles. Your saying that ASA did it because they got around UAL's restrictions that way, but SkyWest wouldn't do it because of the narrow profit margin. Are you really denying that there was a stipulation with UAL, at that time, that SkyWest COULDN'T operate out of LAX under any other paint job? Again, it's one company, as you say.

Funny, SkyWest has no problem operating some CRJ's for Airtran with a yet to be determined profit margin. That flying is "at risk", is it not?

If you want some secret company documents faxed to you for your proof, I can't produce them.

And I'm sure you've seen these "secret company documents", right?

Won't even bother bringing up the other issues you dodged.

 

[Baronman]

That is why ASA was doing the Skywest flying out of LAX. One company. I think that is what you are overlooking. Company memo stated that SKYW would not fly the LAX flying for the slim profit margin, and XJT was doing it to get their planes in the air. If you want some secret company documents faxed to you for your proof, I can't produce them.

As someone else said...What does a pilot care what their company is getting paid? The only thing we should care about is what WE are getting paid.

It's bad when lower paid pilots get more flying...overall it creates a downward pressure for wages. In this case XJT pilots were making more than ASA pilots. XJT pilots weren't "undercutting" anyone.

I swear I think on these boards people focus on how much their company makes yet fail to notice how much they themselves make. "WE MADE $22 MILLION!!!!" yet this guy makes less than the other guy so who really cares?

 

[79%N1]

Dude...are you really that thick???? SKYW bids for ASA flying. i.e..... Same company. I guess for you I should have said that Skywest Inc chose not to bid for flying for either of their subsidiaries to do LAX flying for less than an acceptable profit margin. The reason ASA was there was indeed because Skywest Airlines could not do the flying. ASA did the flying until SKYW was forced to bid against other airlines to keep the flying. How is that talking in circles. The point was that Skywest inc, or any of it's subs, declined to bid as low as XJT did to gain the contract!

To the above guy, I never said anything about pilot pay. The other guy made the comment that XJT got some flying due to their phenomenal performance, reliability, etc. I simply offered up that a low bid to operate on a super low (unsustainable) margin may have had something to do with it.

Good luck to all XJT'ers.

 

[Erlanger]

...Funny, SkyWest has no problem operating some CRJ's for Airtran with a yet to be determined profit margin. That flying is "at risk", is it not?...

This is part of a larger plan by Skywest for the future. What's interesting is that this contract is for 3 years which incidently is about the time when Skywest plans on buying the new C-Series. Yup. you read that right. Not announced yet of course. Jerry has been talking about doing branded flying for awhile and he's one of 4 CEOs that talked Bombardier into not cancelling the C-Series project. Gee, why would he do that?

Jerry I've heard say that the days of the codeshare agreements of the past that Skywest and other regionals have been able to make money hand over fist is gone. He feels if Skywest doesn't expand into other areas it'll become extinct eventually. Skywest has been doing alot of at-risk flying for Delta and UAL over the last 2 years but no ones noticed. Looks like Republic and Skywest, Inc will be way ahead of everyone and may the only two left standing.

 

[dojetdriver]

Dude...are you really that thick???? SKYW bids for ASA flying. i.e..... Same company. I guess for you I should have said that Skywest Inc chose not to bid for flying for either of their subsidiaries to do LAX flying for less than an acceptable profit margin. The reason ASA was there was indeed because Skywest Airlines could not do the flying. ASA did the flying until SKYW was forced to bid against other airlines to keep the flying. How is that talking in circles. The point was that Skywest inc, or any of it's subs, declined to bid as low as XJT did to gain the contract!

Sorry, but you were talking in circles. You didn't acknowledge the UAL stipulation on SkyWest till it was brought up, anyyyyyywayyyyyy....

To the above guy, I never said anything about pilot pay. The other guy made the comment that XJT got some flying due to their phenomenal performance, reliability, etc.

We already covered it. DAL wanted a carrier that was 1) Cheaper, 2) Had airframes readily available, and 3) Had better performance numbers. That's not a slam on the fine folks at ASA, nor bravado about XJT. But when numbers are put out, take a look at many of ASA's, often times they are not at the top, but neither is XJT. And YES, I KNOW that much of that has to deal with the overall charlie foxtrot that is ATL. But if an operation can't be run out of the west coast with decent numbers, what's the problem? And I'd hardly put the XR up against the other plane I've flown, but it has the benefit of being designed after the CRJ series, and by default was designed to be a more operationally flexible plane. What kind of payload could the ASA CRJ's take out of places like CUL, RNO, ZCL, ect? Could you max out payload from those places?

I simply offered up that a low bid to operate on a super low (unsustainable) margin may have had something to do with it.

That's already been covered and not disputed. The ORIGINAL 10 CPA aircraft were on a low profit or break even arrangement. The pro rate that came later was at a severe loss.

 

[dojetdriver]

This is part of a larger plan by Skywest for the future. What's interesting is that this contract is for 3 years which incidently is about the time when Skywest plans on buying the new C-Series. Yup. you read that right. Not announced yet of course. Jerry has been talking about doing branded flying for awhile and he's one of 4 CEOs that talked Bombardier into not cancelling the C-Series project. Gee, why would he do that?

Jerry I've heard say that the days of the codeshare agreements of the past that Skywest and other regionals have been able to make money hand over fist is gone. He feels if Skywest doesn't expand into other areas it'll become extinct eventually. Skywest has been doing alot of at-risk flying for Delta and UAL over the last 2 years but no ones noticed. Looks like Republic and Skywest, Inc will be way ahead of everyone and may the only two left standing.

Interesting stuff to say the least. Especially using a larger aircraft than a 50 seat fleet type. Because it's been proven TWICE that when fuel goes up, the costs on those are simply too high. The problem with using the larger gage equipment is that it can attract the attention of well oiled machines like SW and JB. As well as the legacies that have huge amounts of cash/capitol on hand that absorb a loss, fuel increase, ect on a new route to squash some LCC competition. This also worked against I-Air and XJT. Attracting the attention of the lcc's and legacies was something that the management at XJT avoided, and governed many of the decisions they made for city pairs, etc.

I would agree with your last statement, those two companies have assets that position them much better than the two previous that tried to do their own branded flying.

 

[10nCLR]

This is part of a larger plan by Skywest for the future. What's interesting is that this contract is for 3 years which incidently is about the time when Skywest plans on buying the new C-Series. Yup. you read that right. Not announced yet of course. Jerry has been talking about doing branded flying for awhile and he's one of 4 CEOs that talked Bombardier into not cancelling the C-Series project. Gee, why would he do that?

Jerry I've heard say that the days of the codeshare agreements of the past that Skywest and other regionals have been able to make money hand over fist is gone. He feels if Skywest doesn't expand into other areas it'll become extinct eventually. Skywest has been doing alot of at-risk flying for Delta and UAL over the last 2 years but no ones noticed. Looks like Republic and Skywest, Inc will be way ahead of everyone and may the only two left standing.

Erlanger is very observant. I would agree with everything said here.

 

[TNPILOT]

Wow, 15 minutes of my life I can't get back. Are people really arguing about which regional's management undercut who? What a bunch of losers.

 

[SuperKooter]

Xjt, Mesa and Comair are going to be the first regional airlines that will cease opertaions in the next 5 years.

 

[Whydoitry]

Xjt, Mesa and Comair are going to be the first regional airlines that will cease opertaions in the next 5 years.

Mesa bankruptcy, liquidation.

XJT merger.

CMR reduced out of existence.

You maybe right, but probably not.

 

[walpaper]

I don't really care and hope xjt is a success I really do. But this is what we are being told. That this might be a money loser for xjt with how low they bid.

Does "economies of scale" mean anything to you???