XJET CR2 pilots must rebid!

[dojetdriver]

Other than that PBS is hands down better than the line bidding we used to have at ASA. But since ASA pilots have NO experience with XJT line bidding, a blanket statement about line bidding really can't be made.

There, fixed it for you.

Well, no what he's saying is that with the sh** pairings the company creates, the trips will always stink. PBS allows you to take the sh** pairings and make...peanut butter out of them by allowing you to arrange those sh** pairings in a way that makes them at least able to be swallowed.

Like, if I know I have to eat sh** all month next month, but I want to at least not eat sh** from the 3rd to the 7th, I might be able to work that out. With line bidding, the company has much more control over when you will be eating sh**. With PBS, your seniority determines on which days they will be defecating all over your stupid face.

So, you will always be eating sh**, PBS or not. Our PBS just gives you more control over time and portion size.

Not exactly. A concept you guys continually fail to understand is that during the LIW's, that sh** you're eating can be turned into a more palatable/easily digestible form of sh**. It's the recourse that's available with the XJT line bid/LIW system. Doesn't matter what PBS system is being used, PBS just doesn't offer those options.

 

[Clutch]

Jesus H, a-hole.. Drop it with the "the line bidding system we have is so effing glorious" crap.. I dont care!

You're very annoying.

 

[Abernathy]

There, fixed it for you.




Not exactly. A concept you guys continually fail to understand is that during the LIW's, that sh** you're eating can be turned into a more palatable/easily digestible form of sh**. It's the recourse that's available with the XJT line bid/LIW system. Doesn't matter what PBS system is being used, PBS just doesn't offer those options.

Your current line system is vastly superior to our *former* line system, as are your work rules. I agree with you. I was just commenting on his comment that our PBS and former line bidding system give the same end result. That's not true.

 

[dojetdriver]

Jesus H, a-hole.. Drop it with the "the line bidding system we have is so effing glorious" crap.. I dont care!

You're very annoying.

Jesus H, a-hole. Drop it with the "PBS is so f'ing fantastic that everybody always gets what they want without fail the first time" crap. I don't care!

You're very annoying.

Your current line system is vastly superior to our *former* line system, as are your work rules. I agree with you. I was just commenting on his comment that our PBS and former line bidding system give the same end result. That's not true.

Fair enough Abernathy. I was just making the clarification since there are MANY ASA guys that seem to think ALL line bid systems are the same. Obviously with your post you don't fall into that category.

 

[sweptback]

Fair enough Abernathy. I was just making the clarification since there are MANY ASA guys that seem to think ALL line bid systems are the same. Obviously with your post you don't fall into that category.

All line bidding systems are the same. You sort through lines, pick a line that might have 50-75% of what you want, and bid for it. Then you repeat as many times as the number you are in your seat.

You guys have a better open time system than we have (which may or may not let you handle the 25-50% of trips that you got but don't want to do), but let's be honest here, your line bidding system was the same as what we had under Flica.

There's no reason we couldn't have ASA's PBS with XJT's open time windows.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Well, at least the mini Indy is going according to schedule. That is what's
most important.

I'm glad .0004% of our company is allowed an all expense paid trip on the companys dime to drive go carts around for three days. Very morale boosting

 

[SPDBRD747400]

Well, at least the mini Indy is going according to schedule. That is what's
most important.

I'm glad .0004% of our company is allowed an all expense paid trip on the companys dime to drive go carts around for three days. Very morale boosting

Yeah no kidding, we really see where are companies priorities are! What a joke, oh but we have a new corporate sign on the G.O. that looks like it was cut out from cardboard boxes. Funny where they like to spend money but "we" are expensive!

 

[ASABound]

Why hasn't Joe Merchant chimed in yet????

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

 

[Nevets]

Well, at least the mini Indy is going according to schedule. That is what's
most important.

I'm glad .0004% of our company is allowed an all expense paid trip on the companys dime to drive go carts around for three days. Very morale boosting

Don't forget to vote for your All Star! And pick up your $12 turkey coupon on the way out. Yay Super Regional!!! Ps don't call in sick even if you are (especially on Thanksgiving or Christmas cause you'll miss out on the free cold food) otherwise you won't be eligible for that 32" TV raffle.

 

[79%N1]

Don't forget to vote for your All Star! And pick up your $12 turkey coupon on the way out. Yay Super Regional!!! Ps don't call in sick even if you are (especially on Thanksgiving or Christmas cause you'll miss out on the free cold food) otherwise you won't be eligible for that 32" TV raffle.

Like.....

 

[dojetdriver]

All line bidding systems are the same. You sort through lines, pick a line that might have 50-75% of what you want, and bid for it. Then you repeat as many times as the number you are in your seat.

Correct. PBS can/will do the exact same thing though. When it finally gets to your seniority, that in NO way means it will give you 100% of your preferences. If you're the 4-4day a month type, doesn't mean ALL trips will be to you liking. Especially if there are other things at play, IE high credit window, etc etc etc. Which just loops us back around to it being more about the workrules than the system itself.

You guys have a better open time system than we have (which may or may not let you handle the 25-50% of trips that you got but don't want to do), but let's be honest here, your line bidding system was the same as what we had under Flica.

Won't disagree with your last statement. But therein lies the problem. The diehard on the ASA side DON'T want the open time system. Because to them it means less line holders. Although that's a bit of a fallacy as phase 2/relief line bid takes care of most of that.

There's no reason we couldn't have ASA's PBS with XJT's open time windows.

See above. It's a circular problem that's dependent of what the groups want, that can further be broken down into each specific group's seniority demographic.

So it just means we argue the SAME points. PBS can hand you sh** with NO recourse. XJT line bid can hand you sh**, but with recourse. If PBS language could create the same amount of open time as the SLIW, that'd be great. But it goes agains the core principle of PBS. It's a efficiency tool for the company FIRST AND FOREMOST who's goal is eliminate open time.

About the only exception is the way TWA ran their PBS system, which used the execution that it would be 100% under the pilot groups control. Company doesn't like the solution/sort/ward? Tough sh**, deal with it.

 

[JustaNumber]

About the only exception is the way TWA ran their PBS system, which used the execution that it would be 100% under the pilot groups control. Company doesn't like the solution/sort/ward? Tough sh**, deal with it.

It should be pointed out that TWA ended up not being an economically viable entity, and those pilots who won that battle lost the war. Unfortunately, especially in the regional world, costs do need to be considered. I'm not saying give away the farm, just that we need to at least consider keeping total costs under control if we want our careers to survive. For example, we might give up vacation low in exchange for control of pairing construction, or something like that.

 

[Abernathy]

For example, we might give up vacation low in exchange for control of pairing construction, or something like that.

You're thinking just like our MEC. They'll give us pairing construction in return for vacation low, but let's remember.. We have had sh** pairings for years now and you may not realize it but many of the months, we're flying ALPA built pairings. YES the ones with reduced rest, as well.

The only thing that will change this problem is when the new rules go into effect, thus creating a much more civilized work environment.

8 leg days with 8:24 off duty are things you will see even with ALPA building the pairings. And the end result will still be maybe an 82 hours line.

The worst and most dangerous line I was ever awarded was with ALPA built pairings. Every 4 day I flew had at least 1 (in one case TWO) reduced rest scheduled layovers. And I didn't make much over guarantee that month.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

How about keep vacation low AND gain control of pairing construction.

The company has proven EVERY SINGLE MONTH they have no personnel in place who are bright enough or well trained enough to staff the Crew Planning dept. ALPA has to do their jobs on a volunteer basis. We're fortunate to have guys and gals willing...

Now we're being threatened with disciplinary action by the CPO if we don't do Crew Scheduling's job by alerting them to potential schedule issues the day before. Nevermind all these "challenges" are created by the College Park crack team in the first place.

This is getting uglier every day

 

[Plainsman]

Why don't you call in fatigued? That would hit them where it hurt if a couple of you guys did that instead of sitting over there sleeping, I mean flying. It's there for you so use it. Some jackbass told me that only the younger crowd is calling in since they don't have a good moral work ethic. I think it is because they fly the crummy trips. Who cares this place won't do you any favors, don't do one for them. Salt Lake's, Holt's, Tutt's, and Hall's idea of the Golden Rule and my idea are two different things.

 

[drinksonme]

Just a thought. I heard a lot of ASA folks say they did not want line bidding back because of the large amount of time it took to bid, or having to spend time in front of a computer during XJT improvement window was a waste. Then I read on here people spending 4 to 5 hours bidding with PBS. Some so angry they want to be paid for the second bid. Not to pour salt in a wound, but this month I spent 10 mins bidding. I am in our second bid at XJT as well, so it does not take as long, but when I was in the initial bid, I do not think I spend more than an hour bidding. That was usually in vacation months to maximize my schedule, get commutable trips, and get weekends off. Never failed me..... Like I said, second bid line bidding at XJT, took 10 mins..and I got my full schedule yesterday.

 

[Freebrd]

How about keep vacation low AND gain control of pairing construction.
THIS THIS THIS!!!!
Now we're being threatened with disciplinary action by the CPO if we don't do Crew Scheduling's job by alerting them to potential schedule issues the day before. Nevermind all these "challenges" are created by the College Park crack team in the first place.
Sounds like a G/O problem. They'll figure it out, who gives a f*&# if they don't! Disciplinary action, cool, a few days off maybe?
This is getting uglier every day
ASA, oops XJT, has always been ugly! And we get our f*&#%*@ schedule on the 27th now, and reserves on the 28th due to those clowns screwups! I wouldn't be doing too many favors out there.

But hey thanks for ALL you do (to keep the place running anyway even with our f&%#-ups! Burn it! Oops, I meant go burn one, like a cigarette. :nuts:

 

[Trcb777]

Just a thought. I heard a lot of ASA folks say they did not want line bidding back because of the large amount of time it took to bid, or having to spend time in front of a computer during XJT improvement window was a waste. Then I read on here people spending 4 to 5 hours bidding with PBS. Some so angry they want to be paid for the second bid. Not to pour salt in a wound, but this month I spent 10 mins bidding. I am in our second bid at XJT as well, so it does not take as long, but when I was in the initial bid, I do not think I spend more than an hour bidding. That was usually in vacation months to maximize my schedule, get commutable trips, and get weekends off. Never failed me..... Like I said, second bid line bidding at XJT, took 10 mins..and I got my full schedule yesterday.

It all depends how specific you want to get with your bid preferences and that will determine how long it takes. Some guys just set up the default bid and just run that every month which requires zero time to bid. Others might just want weekends off and don't care about what their flying Monday through Friday. If you get real specific and want to work the first week of the month starting on Tuesday after 1300 with overnights on MEM and JAX and duty out by 1600, it might take you more time.

 

[Nevets]

It all depends how specific you want to get with your bid preferences and that will determine how long it takes. Some guys just set up the default bid and just run that every month which requires zero time to bid. Others might just want weekends off and don't care about what their flying Monday through Friday. If you get real specific and want to work the first week of the month starting on Tuesday after 1300 with overnights on MEM and JAX and duty out by 1600, it might take you more time.

This is the same for the ERJ line bidding system.

 

[enuffalready]

ASA people are overwhelmingly in support of PBS.... since its inception I have not spoken to a single pilot that wants to go back to line bidding ......period.

the only real changes people i have talked to are interested in are making the finals come out earlier...say the 10th-12th instead of waiting until the 20th. And getting control of the pairings.... no system is perfect, but if we got those fixes i would be very pleased.