XJ TA may be voted down

[XJ-spartacus]

Crunk,

Don't get me wrong, I don't approve of concessions of any kind. If ALPA had even a quarter of the strength that they claim to have, there wouldn't be any imposed terms. The NY Transit workers made it clear that they would strike with or without the courts approval. After 3 days of an illegal strike, they got their contract. A contract that was an improvement I might add. The only difference between those NY Transit reps and the reps at Mesaba is their committment to their principles. The union reps in NY weren't shaken by the threat of personal legal action, your's are. If they weren't, you wouldn't be voting on a 15% pay cut. I'm not trying to anger anyone, I'm just pointing out the obvious. I only hope that the pilots show both their reps, as well as their management, just how much they have been under estimated. God speed to those that choose to fight.

-Spartacus

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Thanks, Spartacus.

And just so we're all clear, Mesaba pilots are not taking a 15% pay cut. It would be a 5-5.5% wage reduction, plus other stuff added on, like loss of one week of vacation, uniform allowance, per diem freeze, etc.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

the problem is all those little things add up quick especially to the FO's

 

[eaglefly]

How our contract was approved is known and more complex than clearly most here know.

Excuse ?

Hardly.

The difference is that we've lived with it and know it's actually pretty good, looking at the landscape.

Spartacus got the message.

Lets examine this another way.

The circumstances presented to you are a sham. You have the power to determine such and elect to send a message that you value your worth more than the 7/11 working conditions (come to think of it, I don't know of ANY company in the United Staes of America that demandes 33% of their hard working employees, if they do offer health care) that are being OFFERED..............Yes, "offered".

Personally, I think you're worth more and it saddens me to see so many embrace victimization for the sake of a control yoke and set of power levers. But, if you accept this, than you're sending the message that it is acceptable.

I'm just saying, if you DO, then be happy.................you got your wish.

You're not helpless victims.............that is, unless you freely choose to be.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

All parties involved in this bankruptcy have admitted that concessions are/were needed. Sham bankruptcy?? That is your opinion, the other is fact created by union, mgt, and law. Fair or not is another question. I really don't understand how people can hold the line by jumping regionals. Leaving for a better paying fly job or the industry is the only way to hold the line. Not all involved are interested in giving up on aviation and some of those don't have the resources to make a positive move. I don't vote on this because of the furlough, but if this passes my decision will be difficult. You can count on me doing what is best for my family with my career ranking very low on importance. I'm a mistake or two away from no license and a bad mgt away from another furlough. My family has been there and I have faith they will be there in the future. Oh yeah Eagle, I don't need you or anyone else to cry for me, my son does that when they drop me at the airport and reminds me every time what this career is really made of. cya

 

[xjgearbtch]

There's alot of opinions flying around, I honestly believe this TA might not pass. Many people who I thought would vote yes are actually saying they won't. This is a different animal than our last TA and many people are viewing this differently the second time around. They've seen what the last yes vote got them. These ASA's that Nwa gave us mean nothing, they can and have changed them at will. We own no aircraft it's all NWA. They can shift the planes anywhere they want. Nothing is concrete at Mesaba and many are seeing the writting on the wall. It's a sham and at some point you have to put your foot down.
"We could live to fight another day", but how long will things improve at Mesaba until they beat us down again. Will we all get that PIC time to get out of this hell hold. I doubt it. Many may get to upgrade but even then there are too many lifers here. Unless there is a huge airplane order the majority of us will stay FO's or CA on reserve building 400 PIC one year at a time. While everyone else at the other regionals who already have PIC move on to the majors. If we don't vote this down it will follow us to any other regional we move to. Until ALPA is lead with stronger leadership, we will continue to be pawns, castaways.

When Mesaba hires again avoid it like the plague. You are better off going to Mesa or Go Jets it's all about PIC time. 7+ years at FO pay does no good for your career or family, PRIDE will not get you a job. ALPA has dropped the sword and expects us to fall on it once again. When we interview at a new airline someday they will not care if we "held the line" that we fought hard against managements shams they want PIC time.

So what do we do? They, management, have ruined our careers. We do our job safely and on time. They have failed us and expect us to fix their problems through our paycheck. I say no, make them pay, shut the place down and move on. They will have to replace us, hopefully many of us can get ahead and upgrade sooner at that airline. If not there are other airlines. Mesaba is not a reputable airline, managment has failed us. Right now we have nothing, to look foward to, but being a FO or Junior CA forever or furloughed. Take a risk it can't be worse than what it currently is.

 

[xjhawk]

I do not think so......

There is a ton of grumbling on the line. Talk of taking the hard road. When the TA first came out it could of passed, now with time it looks like many are changing their minds.

Anyone else catching this vibe in MSP and MEM?

No I am not catching this vibe in either MEM or MSP. I would have to think there have been 4-5 people who are grumbling about how bad of a deal this is when we talk about it in the crewroom or in the plane (not while flying ofcourse) Most that i have seen are not happy with the deal, but are accepting its the best deal we may get considering the bankruptcy laws and the courts. Anyways i am predicting a 70/30 pass. I am not happy with it, but i see it as a point to move on from.

 

[XJXJXJ]

How our contract was approved is known and more complex than clearly most here know.

Excuse ?

Hardly.

The difference is that we've lived with it and know it's actually pretty good, looking at the landscape.

Spartacus got the message.


You're not helpless victims.............that is, unless you freely choose to be.

Spartacus is leaving for SWA soon.

Only 3 groups would not ratify the TA

#1 Furloughed Pilots
#2 Ex XJers
#3 Those moving on to greener pastures

It's easy to talk big when you aren't counting on Mesaba. The silent majority will easily ratify the TA.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Spartacus is leaving for SWA soon.

Only 3 groups would not ratify the TA

#1 Furloughed Pilots
#2 Ex XJers
#3 Those moving on to greener pastures

It's easy to talk big when you aren't counting on Mesaba. The silent majority will easily ratify the TA.

DING DING DING we have a winner.... And groups 1 and 2 (probably better than 1/3 of the list) don't get a vote. Not to mention how many of group 3 won't vote either.

 

[Dodge]

That is exactly the problem. The only people who would vote this down are those that refused to "count on Mesaba" for anything ever again. As far as greener pastures to go to, one does not need to look very hard to find some. If this TA passes, Mesaba will be just about the worst place to work for. But I guess that beats getting a resume put together and studying for an interview.

What is the provision in the TA for your 3 weeks of vacation when:
a. You gave away 1 week
b. They cancel another (this never happens, does it?)
c. They cancel 2 weeks because you put them together

I hope XJ gets 60 airplanes out of this. That would bring the staffing levels up to 1999-2000.