XJ pilots: Here is the lube, stand by for the big. . .

[Butters]

November 21, 2005

Dear Fellow Employees:

Today, I sent letters to our union leadership at AFA, ALPA, AMFA and TWU proposing expedited negotiations on new collective bargaining agreements for each group. The negotiations are scheduled to begin November 29
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th and conclude by December 19th. I wanted you to be aware of this development and the reasons we believe these sessions are necessary.

Since Northwest Airlines entered into Chapter 11 in September, our financial condition has dramatically deteriorated as our business plans have been disrupted. Northwest’s bankruptcy – and its subsequent actions – was responsible for our Chapter 11 filing in October.

In response to this situation, we entered into discussions with each of our unions regarding changes to their existing collective bargaining agreements. Those discussions led to exchanges of information, several negotiating sessions and an agreement with one union on a limited group of issues.

Since then, however, the extent to which our financial condition has deteriorated has become clearer. As a result, the Company’s new business plan now compels us to seek further modifications to each of our collective bargaining agreements in order to ensure a successful reorganization of the Company. Thus, our call today for expedited negotiations which, if successful, would allow us to avoid using the bankruptcy courts to
achieve these restructurings (in legal terms, a “Section 1113(c) filing”).

At our meetings on November 29, we will present comprehensive proposals for
modifications to each collective bargaining agreement. These proposals will be based on the most complete and reliable financial and business planning information available, information that we will freely share with our union negotiators. We believe that expedited agreements to the terms of the proposals, or to other negotiated terms providing similar cost savings, are essential to the successful reorganization of the Company and to assure that all of the affected parties are treated fairly and equitably.

I want to underscore that last point – all of us, whether we are subject to a collective bargaining agreement or not, will fairly and equitably bear our share of the challenges we face. We will not put before the unions any proposals which ask their members to carry a disproportionate share of this burden.
As I’ve said on many occasions over the last several months, these are difficult times for our company and our industry. I have been proud – but not surprised – by the professionalism each of you has demonstrated during this period by keeping our airline operating at the highest levels of service and reliability. As we face this next set of challenges, I believe that we will continue to be successful. Thank you for your efforts in achieving that goal.

Very truly yours,

Mesaba Aviation, Inc.
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[saabingitagain]

STFD. Not a penny. :angryfire

 

[xjpilot]

Ditto!!!!

 

[Towelie]

Amazing, isn't it?

They want cuts yet we don't even know what aircraft we will have or how many of each. And they want it all done in a month.

Nope. Not a penny.

 

[tripacer]

With the NWA pilots caving and taking a 23% paycut on Nov 14th, it's only a matter of time before our 20% is taken out of our pockets, everything seems to run in tandum around here.

If you want to send a message to our MEC Chairman, here's his email address [email protected]

Tell these "leaders" NO to concessions and pay-cuts.

I'm sure he would enjoy hearing from other pilots explain their viewpoint as to why another regional pilot group concession is not a good idea for the industry , or for our families.

Will ALPA please stand up and DO something !!!!!!!

 

["GO AROUND"]

Good luck to you guys. We're all gonna need it.

 

[8HourPilot]

I don't understand, why is it that only MAIR is in bankruptcy? Why isn't pinnacle in on this as well? Why is it that MAIR is having to consider pay cuts (cause we all know that the way to saving $$ is to cut the poor guys salary), and there is no talk from pinnacle people about pay cuts? What am I missing?

 

[gnx99]

Oh yeah this is great

 

[cougarx530]

I don't understand, why is it that only MAIR is in bankruptcy? Why isn't pinnacle in on this as well? Why is it that MAIR is having to consider pay cuts (cause we all know that the way to saving $$ is to cut the poor guys salary), and there is no talk from pinnacle people about pay cuts? What am I missing?

MAIR is not in Bankruptcy, Mesaba Aviation is in BK! I'm guessing that Pinnacle isn't because they operate so lean already, not just compensation either, all the other cost savings of operating a single fleet type. Also, half or more of their fleet is not threatend to be parked. Just my $.03

Tough to swallow, but inevitable! Its about to get ugly enough to scare a dog off a meat truck!

 

[blackbox]

y doesnt pinnacle, xj, and NW pilots all stand together? strength in no. right?

 

[saabservant]

that would be a leadership challenge for our respective association officers, and a change to the system (RLA, seperate contracts, etc.) There is no vision or courage evident for a UNIFIED effort, at this time...

No concessions! If the court forces them in 1113c, STFD!!

 

[Joe Patroni]

Dec 19th?

Sounds like something big is planned on Dec. 20.
I see some Avro's returning from their suntan.

 

[M-crit]

Hey Spanjers, whats your pay cut?

 

[Monster Buck]

To tie a few threads together...We should pull up to about 1.5 meters and communicate. Spongebob jingle pants can go fUkk himself.
Not one cent in any form.

 

[Simon Says]

I don't understand, why is it that only MAIR is in bankruptcy? Why isn't pinnacle in on this as well? Why is it that MAIR is having to consider pay cuts (cause we all know that the way to saving $$ is to cut the poor guys salary), and there is no talk from pinnacle people about pay cuts? What am I missing?

Here is the SHAM....and why 9E is not going into bankrupcy.

In the beginning, Mesaba wanted to open up our contract. The only way to do that is if ALPA agrees to open it up. Under ALPA by-laws we are not to open up concessionary contract talks until ALPA reviews ALL financial data from the company and deems it nessecary for concessionary talks. The company did not want to share that information so we were not going to enter into concessionary talks. Well, as everybody knows Mesaba then took the back door route to opening up our contract through bankrupcy. They will force our hand to open up our contract legally through a 1113c filing. I BELIEVE THIS IS THE ONLY REASON MESABA ENTERED INTO BANKRUPCY WAS TO OPEN UP THE PILOT CONTRACT.

To answer why 9E did not file bankrupcy is simple. Their contract is already open through Section 6 negotiations.

Folks, it is that simple.

 

[Butters]

I BELIEVE THIS IS THE ONLY REASON MESABA ENTERED INTO BANKRUPCY WAS TO OPEN UP THE PILOT CONTRACT.

To answer why 9E did not file bankrupcy is simple. Their contract is already open through Section 6 negotiations.

Folks, it is that simple.

So can't we count of those of you in the MEC to stand firm and tell the company to shove it or are we looking at another roll-over-and-take-it scenario?

 

[PCL_128]

The reason Mesaba Aviation is in BK but not Pinnacle is very simple: MAIR Holdings funnels all of Mesaba Aviation's profits back into the MAIR bank accounts and leaves Mesaba Aviation with virtually no cash as a buffer. Pinnacle on the other hand keeps all of it's profits without having to send any of it to some nebulous holding company. As a result, Pinnacle had $66 million in the bank to cushion the blow of not receiving the payments from NWA after the BK filing. Mesaba didn't have that cushion because their profits were sitting in MAIR bank accounts. Mesaba is actually quite profitable, but all of the money goes to MAIR, which loses money on other ventures such as Big Sky. The truth is, MAIR actually has tremendous amounts of cash on hand. I believe the number is somewhere around $120 million, but I could be off by $10 million or so.

 

[PCL_128]

So can't we count of those of you in the MEC to stand firm and tell the company to shove it or are we looking at another roll-over-and-take-it scenario?

I don't know why you think the responsibility all rests with the MEC on this. No matter what Wychor et al do, they will most likely send any TA out for membership ratification to avoid a lynching. The final decision will be up to you and the rest of your fellow pilots, just as it was a couple of years ago with the new contract. Don't blame the MEC for these things. The pilot group holds the ultimate decision.

 

[Butters]

.....

 

[Butters]

I don't know why you think the responsibility all rests with the MEC on this. No matter what Wychor et al do, they will most likely send any TA out for membership ratification to avoid a lynching. The final decision will be up to you and the rest of your fellow pilots, just as it was a couple of years ago with the new contract. Don't blame the MEC for these things. The pilot group holds the ultimate decision.

Not quite.

The pilots voted to strike in '03. When the deadline came due in '04, everyone was ready and willing to walk. The MEC decided to "keep negotiating", not the pilot group.

Why doesn't the MEC get some balls and tell the company to go to hell before we ever have to vote? The strong ALPA types always blame the pilot group when they have the far majority of the power in such matters.

How can you say "don't blame the MEC" when you have no idea what you are saying?

 

[KL24]

Mesaba is actually quite profitable, but all of the money goes to MAIR, which loses money on other ventures such as Big Sky. The truth is, MAIR actually has tremendous amounts of cash on hand. I believe the number is somewhere around $120 million, but I could be off by $10 million or so.

And the cost to acquire and run Big Sky at a loss has only been around $12 million according to MAIR. So please let's not turn this into, "all of our money is funding a losing airline." There's still $108 million of your money in their bank and probably a lot more. MAIR has done almost nothing for both companies.

 

[PCL_128]

Not quite.

The pilots voted to strike in '03. When the deadline came due in '04, everyone was ready and willing to walk. The MEC decided to "keep negotiating", not the pilot group.

Why doesn't the MEC get some balls and tell the company to go to hell before we ever have to vote? The strong ALPA types always blame the pilot group when they have the far majority of the power in such matters.

How can you say "don't blame the MEC" when you have no idea what you are saying?

I do have a very good idea what I'm saying. In the end, it's all up to the pilot group. I agree that striking at the midnight deadline was probably the best idea, but the MEC apparently wanted to give the pilot group a chance to decide on that TA. If you and the rest of the pilot group weren't happy with it, then a solid NO vote would suffice and the strike would most likely have commenced immediately. Again, the MEC's powers are limited. The pilot group almost always has the final say.

 

[Simon Says]

The reason Mesaba Aviation is in BK but not Pinnacle is very simple: MAIR Holdings funnels all of Mesaba Aviation's profits back into the MAIR bank accounts and leaves Mesaba Aviation with virtually no cash as a buffer. Pinnacle on the other hand keeps all of it's profits without having to send any of it to some nebulous holding company. As a result, Pinnacle had $66 million in the bank to cushion the blow of not receiving the payments from NWA after the BK filing. Mesaba didn't have that cushion because their profits were sitting in MAIR bank accounts. Mesaba is actually quite profitable, but all of the money goes to MAIR, which loses money on other ventures such as Big Sky. The truth is, MAIR actually has tremendous amounts of cash on hand. I believe the number is somewhere around $120 million, but I could be off by $10 million or so.

What you said is quite true.

I think 9E would of had a much more difficult time creating smoke and mirrors to fall into bankrupcy. But you do make a very good point of 9E not having a holdings company to force a bankrupcy.

 

[Simon Says]

So can't we count of those of you in the MEC to stand firm and tell the company to shove it or are we looking at another roll-over-and-take-it scenario?

Talk to a union rep to get the story of how hands are tied in Bankrupcy. Basically if we don't agree to any kind of concessions it will fall upon the judge to impose concessions on how he sees fit. So, if the reps say "shove it" the company will say "fine" and then go to the judge and say the Unions are not negotiating and here is the list of concessions that we need. Then the judge will impose a contract on us as he sees fit.

I know what you are going to say next....."Strike"

Well, ALPA believes we are on firm legal ground to strike while the company does not. So, once all the hoops have been jumped through to strike, the company will file an injunction to keep us at work until this legal aurgument can be hammered out in the courts. And rest assured this could take months if not years to determine if a pilot group can strike if a contract was impossed on us.

BANKRUPCY IS FAR DIFFERENT THAN SECTION 6 NEGOTIATIONS.

 

[Terry Hunter]

At the strike deadline, No XJ planes were flown until a T.A. was reached.

XJ Mgmt- You find it acceptable to make the pilot group wait 2 years for a new contract, and now you want a new contract within 1 month??? Do you really think we'd forget about the way pilots were treated throughout that time?

Carl Pohlad, Chairman of MAIR is paid $300,000 for his service. That is absolutely rediculous, and underscores how financially irresponsible XJ is all around.

The BK filing is so full of fakery in so many ways. You have two airlines in your house, and the one making money declares bankruptcy???

Lastly, this current contract was by no means what the XJ pilots felt they deserved. But many bought in knowing that growth was on the way, hence the label "Growth Contract" comforted people knowing that compensation was to be in faster advancement, better QOL, etc. The contract works - it allows XJ to make money, which they have been doing. A few late payments and threats that haven't come true YET do not make a bankruptcy.

No concessions. None. Time to force this management team to get off their arses, and run this company with some brains.

 

[Butters]

Talk to a union rep to get the story of how hands are tied in Bankrupcy. Basically if we don't agree to any kind of concessions it will fall upon the judge to impose concessions on how he sees fit. So, if the reps say "shove it" the company will say "fine" and then go to the judge and say the Unions are not negotiating and here is the list of concessions that we need. Then the judge will impose a contract on us as he sees fit.

I know what you are going to say next....."Strike"

Well, ALPA believes we are on firm legal ground to strike while the company does not. So, once all the hoops have been jumped through to strike, the company will file an injunction to keep us at work until this legal aurgument can be hammered out in the courts. And rest assured this could take months if not years to determine if a pilot group can strike if a contract was impossed on us.

BANKRUPCY IS FAR DIFFERENT THAN SECTION 6 NEGOTIATIONS.

I understand and agree with everything you are saying.

I, along with many of my fellow XJ pilots, are so fed up that we are willing to let the judge decide. We will probably get hit hard but I would rather some old judge decide that than giving Spanjers the power to do it.

Either way we get screwed.

 

[Simon Says]

Don't get me wrong either....I will vote no to any kind of concessions.

 

[tripacer]

I understand and agree with everything you are saying.

I, along with many of my fellow XJ pilots, are so fed up that we are willing to let the judge decide. We will probably get hit hard but I would rather some old judge decide that than giving Spanjers the power to do it.

Either way we get screwed.

Butters

The answer to your question regarding the pilots group vote is this:

There is NO memrat for a concessionary contract. And here is why.

First, I have talked to reps and they wont confirm nor deny MEMRAT for concessions. Which requires me to think back to our short history of this process.

We NEVER had MEMRAT before the 04' Contract. It was a few strong LEC reps (who are no longer here) that pushed for it. That MEMRAT vote, was for that contract only!! Unless it was written into the Bylaws permanently, which it wasn't, then this MEC can do whatever they feel "is in the best interest of the pilots group (the best interest of THEMSELVES).

Also if you'll remember that after the Contract was pushed thru by our leaderless MEC, we wanted permanent MEMRAT and the option to MEMRAT ANY LOA that came down the pike. Our MEC said NO, impossible! Reason: They didnt have time to pass along every contingency that might arise and there might be some that were time sensitive. BULL SH*T.

So you're right it'll probably come down to a judge, but it'll probably come down to Wee-chor voting for 20% simply because Woerthless told him to do so.

If you're an LEC/MEC rep reading this post and I am wrong, call me on this and tell me I am wrong.

Here's another way of looking at it. If the MEC is silent, besides the Payday Messages, then you know something negative is about to happen. Duane Woerthless is not going to let XJ pilots NOT take paycuts, when his own pilots just took a 23% pay cut exactly 1 week ago.

 

[tripacer]

Why doesn't the MEC get some balls and tell the company to go to hell before we ever have to vote?

Because our MEC Chair has no-balls - or a spine. He gets his marching orders from ALPA National, and his minnions follow him like the pied-piper, no questions asked. Why do you think that after we voted to strike in 03', he decided to "keep negotiating". ALPA National told him to. He is the best used-car salesman I have ever seen. It's a disgrace!

 

[kmox29]

Because our MEC Chair has no-balls - or a spine. He gets his marching orders from ALPA National, and his minnions follow him like the pied-piper, no questions asked. Why do you think that after we voted to strike in 03', he decided to "keep negotiating". ALPA National told him to. He is the best used-car salesman I have ever seen. It's a disgrace!

May I ask what (besides ranting on Flighinfo.com) are you doing to fix this problem? Or are you like a lot of people and just point fingers, whine, and complain. Whenever the nominations come up for LEC reps, I see VERY few people (maybe 2 or 3?) on the ballot.

If you do speak out at union meetings, vote in the elections, and volunteer your time to the union, I apologize. I did not mean to generalize you. I just see SO much whining and SO little action from those whiners.

I say Fox-Uniform to our SLT (typing those letters makes me want to puke). Let the bankrupcy court ream me. At least I'll have a fresh face to look at while I'm being sodomized.