XJ Memo about 9E & Delta

[fowingman]

what does everyone think about good ole resitfo, attempt to excite the pilot group into getting the performance numbers up? i think its rude what he did. but on the flip side!!! all the new hire will actually see his true colors, quickly in theire career here at mesaba. as a pilot we get in the airplane and fly it. thats it J.R. thats all a pilot does, if it is broken, thats the case, if its hot, thats the case. i'm so sick of pilots being the scape goat for the numbers of the airline. i think a good taxi at a "brisk walk" (FAR-AIM suggested speed) and do things by tthe numbers is warrented. if he wants to make go up against over 1,000 people (pilots), wow he has balls.

 

[gnx99]

Interesting how all the recent Spanjers memos specifically mention how good Mesaba's completion and on-time performance have been. Four of the last five memos describe our performance as "excellent". The fifth memo was just telling us about the merger announcement.

So who's right?

 

[contrail67]

Pride goes before a fall....any one ever hear of Murphys law?

 

[mesaba13]

The tone of his memo was almost one of desperation in my opinion.

 

[i fly boxes]

what did it say?

 

[xjgearbtch]

If you don't like the guy so be it.. but he has a VERY VALID POINT. He also gave options to meet the goal. We are in dire times how we perform right now will determine our future. Fuel burn, on time performance are all critical. We may be wholly owned but we are still a sub contractor. Don't ever forget that.

 

[xjcaptain]

If you don't like the guy so be it.. but he has a VERY VALID POINT. He also gave options to meet the goal. We are in dire times how we perform right now will determine our future. Fuel burn, on time performance are all critical. We may be wholly owned but we are still a sub contractor. Don't ever forget that.

Quick.....get a moderator. A post that makes valid and rational points. All the whining we read doesn't change reality. Performance counts, and everything we can do to operate more efficiently fuel wise (SE taxi etc) may just make the difference.

 

[mesaba13]

what were the options he gave to meet the goals? It sounded like he wants the crewmembers to figure it out.

 

[xjgearbtch]

he gave four different contacts to help us pilots get what we need to complete the job. Need an air cart, GPU, and you're not getting it call one of those numbers. What's there to figure out? Fly safely and on time, if you can't because of external issues use the phone numbers.

 

[SplitBar]

What J.R. is pissed about is the fact that there are MANY delays that are totally avoidable due to crew members doing stupid stuff like leaving hotels 2 minutes prior to show time because they don't want to show up early. Notice the recent reminders on crew trac about van times out of MLI and CVG.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Funny, memo comes out about not closing the boarding door til the cargo door is closed.... on time goes in the toilet. Now they are seeing Delta play hardball and all of a sudden, please close door and be out on time... well which is it? You can't have things both ways guys. I don't trust this group. It's like they want to have it both ways so they can second guess you to suit which ever way they feel like peeing that day. I'm all for working together as a team to make things better for everyone but when one side doesn't want to make an effort don't expect the other side to go out of their way either.

 

[whaleroast]

I don't know if we have a lot of new captains being ignorant or a lot of old captains being stubborn, but whatever the reason there have been a lot of delays lately that probably could have been avoided. Like taking a van to the airport that would have brought the crew to the airport well after showtime. Is this really a big deal to catch a van to get to work ontime? There are some captains who refuse to drop the brake if the cargo door is still open, despite the other parameters of being "on time" clearly met. Maybe some guys don't know you can drop the brake with the cargo door open and still get out on time. Maybe this is the fault of the company going to TAMDAR too. Whatever it is, we as pilots can control all of this by being proactive and not lazy globs of pastries and coffee held together by insomina and dreams of working for Fed Ex. Like the other posters said before, the purpose of the memo was to inform all of us of the people to call when something wasn't being done correctly. So call them. Hound them. Make them responsible and quit the bitching! The crew room in whatever hub you choose to visit is always awash in the flab of the clucking hens, but so too you have the old Grimaces bitching about the direction of the company, guys that had the time to go to Fed Ex 5 years ago but didn't. Some of the old Avro captains I flew with are still crying about being displaced to the Saab while making Avro pay. I was making unemployment pay at that time so I really don't care what you have to say. If it is so bad, you should have moved on when you had the chance. But they argue the schedule the pay! So they stay and thus earn the right to cry and whine. Now their latest focus is the flow to big brother or the lack of and the crew room is filled with this great debate. Hooray. Something else to cry about.

I have no great love for Joe, either. I had a MX issue on a CDO, cancelled the flight went back to bed only to get a call from him at noon when I was in a dead sleep so he could understand the issue. In the end, he is obviously a numbers man, and I suppose the screws are being put to him by his keeper. Do the job legally, by the contract, by the rules and CYA but for godsakes be smart and do the job right and as a professional. Get to the airport on time, have the plane ready to go and if it is not, but ready to contact the proper managers to relay your gripes. It isn't hard, it is our job.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

Up until recently, not sure the date, all doors had to be closed and the aircraft ready to power/push in order to drop the brake to record the out time (Saab anyway, don't know about the jet). This is another example of XJ tripping over a dollar to save ... well in this case a penny.

 

[whaleroast]

May 22 on the cargo door memo and I know alot of Saab guys that aren't even aware of this procedure. Maybe they should read their memos and if they did we wouldn't have this Delta 9e memo posted.

 

[xjcaptain]

May 22 on the cargo door memo and I know alot of Saab guys that aren't even aware of this procedure. Maybe they should read their memos and if they did we wouldn't have this Delta 9e memo posted.

The memo says the cargo door does not have to be closed prior to closing the cabin door, but the "out time" is still dependant on being ready to push which you can't be with an open cargo door, or beginning the taxi under your own power when there is no jetbridge. Back to waiting for numbers before starting #1 with no jetbridge, then blocking out when ready to taxi. These changes were in the last POM revision.

POM CH3 pg 68, and FOM 7.1.2 4(a&b)

 

[xjhawk]

here is a cut and paste from our leaders last letter.

Below is a transcript of John Spanjers’ weekly message for employees on May 30, 2008. You may call 1-877-637-2225 to listen to the message.​

Hi, this is John and today is Friday, May 30, 2008.​

First, we had another week of excellent operational performance. This past Saturday, we posted a 100% completion factor system-wide, and more importantly, we are exceeding our monthly goals for both completion factor and on-time departures. Further, our personnel at our Memphis hub recorded 100% completion factors for eight straight days from May 21st through May 28th. Thank you for your excellent performance.


this must be the "below industry performance letter"

 

[gnx99]

Isn't minimally staffed hub ramps one of the biggest causes of both delays AND fuel waste? Also, how about a better (quicker) W/B system for the Saab? Talk about wasting gas!

 

[mesaba13]

Doesn't the POM language say that out time at a hub is when the brake is released for the capture?

I think some feel that by "sticking their neck out", and doing something like releasing the brake before capture, the company may come back and try and burn them. This happened with us one time when a non-rev had to be pulled off after we closed up and blocked out on time. Dispatch ended up scolding us for being blocked out before the right engine was running. (per DTW camera) I was called by a chief about this and was quoted chapter and verse about what out time is and that we should not have been out.

When a minor issue like this gets management torqued up, it doesn't give me any warm fuzzies about doing the company favors that could get me yelled at later.

 

[Sig]

When a minor issue like this gets management torqued up, it doesn't give me any warm fuzzies about doing the company favors that could get me yelled at later.

Perfectly worded. It happens everywhere, but that's about the best way I've seen it written.

Good luck; we'll all need it sooner or later.

 

[Raskal]

Question about the TAMDAR...if the cargo door is open but main closed, will the out time be transmitted? When it transmits can company see that cargo was still open?

I understand that the time TAMDAR sends is brake drop following door closure along with the time the main door was closed (I got a call about dropping the brake too soon after the door was closed since there wasn't enough time to start an engine...). Does it send info about the cargo door?

 

[Hulk Hogan]

One problem is that mgt sends out memos trying to change procedures, then they tell us to reference the fom/pom which completely contradict what their memo is trying to say. The "cargo door" memo is a perfect example and until recently the single engine ops on the SAAB (in which the POM said that single engine ops is highly discouraged). Our MGT is completely reactive with no abiltiy to think more than 1 inch farther than their own nose.

SAAB issues (don't know how the jet works)
This whole out time issue, in my opinion, was a way for the company to try and save a few pennies here and there by not paying the pilots while we wait for our very inefficient weight and balance program. So, we as pilots are expected to sit in a plane with the doors closed and an engine running without pay, yet we all know who would be held responsible if a problem were to arrise during the time before brake release.

I'm sure there are plenty of 9E guys that would agree that the ramp staff issues, atleast in DTW, are a major cause of most delays. However, we at XJ have become experts at shifting blame from one group of workers to another ...

 

[MN66pilot]

Maybe the delays, low on-time performance numbers and lower than normal completion factor has to do with the crappy weather that we have been expeincing lately. If I remember correctly, our performance numbers where rather high during the first 5 days of the month or so. And for saving on fuel, how about delay the flight for a half hour, instead of getting out on time and flying 100 miles completely out of the way and burning all that extra fuel, I thought fuel consevation was such a huge deal.

 

[Lazy8]

*deleted*

 

[saabservant]

Are ANY of you guys running an engine and not getting paid? How stupid can you be? As long as that door is closed (and an engine running) YOU are responsible for the safety of that aircraft.
It does not matter what ANY manager trying to make himself look good says. You do not do this.
Has the MEC had any position on that? How about the safety committee?

Unbelieveable.

 

[gnx99]

Lazy 8, I'm not suggesting Pinnacle's numbers aren't better than Mesaba's. I frankly have no clue how the two compare. I just find it odd that the President of the company raves about our performance, while the Director of Operations says it's terrible. Someone isn't telling the truth.

 

[Max Powers]

If you don't like the guy so be it.. but he has a VERY VALID POINT. He also gave options to meet the goal. We are in dire times how we perform right now will determine our future. Fuel burn, on time performance are all critical. We may be wholly owned but we are still a sub contractor. Don't ever forget that.

Actually your a Contractor. Sub would be working for another contractor.

 

[fowingman]

i like saab servant's point..

hey has anyone email j.r or wilson or jeff. in regards to the memo, and offer any suggestions, if so, post them on here, and his reply

 

[Flybet3]

If you don't like the guy so be it.. but he has a VERY VALID POINT. He also gave options to meet the goal. We are in dire times how we perform right now will determine our future. Fuel burn, on time performance are all critical. We may be wholly owned but we are still a sub contractor. Don't ever forget that.

I hate to be a little bit** like you :beer:
But I couldn't agree more. I don't know about you guys but I still want to have a job and pretty much going up to the company and kicking it in the nut sack isn't going to help. I know that management is never loved at any airline, and yeah JR might be a tool. But purposely sabotaging the company isn't the solution. IMHO.
This is the one time that "showing the company up" is going to get hurt us more than help us.

 

[CptMurf]

I hate to be a little bit** like you :beer:
But I couldn't agree more. I don't know about you guys but I still want to have a job and pretty much going up to the company and kicking it in the nut sack isn't going to help. I know that management is never loved at any airline, and yeah JR might be a tool. But purposely sabotaging the company isn't the solution. IMHO.
This is the one time that "showing the company up" is going to get hurt us more than help us.

I personally would lrather keep the airline on time and kick management in the jimmie as much as possible.

 

[fowingman]

there are too many people new to the industry at XJ that havenn't been around the block. HAVE balls and a SPINE!!!!!!!

dont be pushed around like this. we are not going to loose are jobs, use your brain geez. we are not like 9e. for several months steenland, and anderson, and bastain, have been saying publicly about moving contract flying inhouse as much as possible. thats been said, ITS NO surprise that this is happening to freedom(mesa) and not pinnacle. its going to continue to happen, next will be express jet, with there 25 erj next year, their contract will not be renewed. expressjet has a decent performace and since it is out of lax they are not hampered with the jfk or the atl terrible traffic.

-I AM NOT SAYING KICK MGMT IN THE TEETH, or be pricks to them, what i am saying is.....
dont let people mistreat you, that memo in a way didn't just say we are not doing great, it said we suck , it said look for new jobs (actually with a quote) what a great morale booster. what i fear for is when the sluimp is over in a year or 2 the new pilots from here will have already set the precident for bending over , and there goes our money!!!

i'm not a ramp agent, nor a gate agent, i do my job and if need be will gladly assist in others, but i wont be blamed for the job fuctions of other work groups.