Xj Bk Judge To Rule 10/23 At 1:30pm

[saabass]

List on his calendar at:

Chief Judge Gregory F Kishel

http://www.w2.mnb.uscourts.gov/

 

[Detroitpilot22]

What will he know then that he does not know now? Its almost like he is timing this thing right, like mesaba management is telling him when to do it. I bet you it will go down like this: He will rule that mesaba can't strike, and that terms can be imposed right away. Mesaba pilots will get pissed and all say they are going to quit (as they should), and then by the end of next week, Northwest announces the order of 36 CRJ 900's for Mesaba.

 

[kmox29]

...and then by the end of next week, Northwest announces the order of 36 CRJ 900's for Mesaba.

Which should have no effect whatsoever on the acceptance of management's proposal.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Someone just showed me the proposed payrates
All jets:
CA FO
$50 20
$52 24
53 26
55 29
56 30
58 31
60 31
62 32
64 32
66
67
70
72
74
75
76
77
79
Must pay 33% of medical insurance costs

 

[gnx99]

What will all the 10 year FO's make?

 

[PCL_128]

What will he know then that he does not know now? Its almost like he is timing this thing right, like mesaba management is telling him when to do it. I bet you it will go down like this: He will rule that mesaba can't strike, and that terms can be imposed right away. Mesaba pilots will get pissed and all say they are going to quit (as they should), and then by the end of next week, Northwest announces the order of 36 CRJ 900's for Mesaba.

Actually, he's probably delaying over and over again in an attempt to never have to actually make a decision. If this goes on long enough, the creditors' committee will demand an immediate liquidation to preserve what little is left of the cash reserves. Mesaba has no real assets, so the only thing the creditors can hope to get is the little bit of cash-on-hand that remains. The longer this drags on, the less money is left in the account, and the creditors will eventually say "enough is enough." When they do, the judge is relieved of this big burden and doesn't have to set any new precident. All he has to do is outlast the creditors, and he's home free.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

What will all the 10 year FO's make?

On the date of their 10th anniversary, they are be-headed.

 

[lionflyer]

I'm no lawyer and certainly no expert, but didn't his honor just impose an injunction against the creditors as well. How long can he keep this BS going?

 

[big shacks]

10 year FO's will make 32.4

 

[gnx99]

10 year FO's will make 32.4

Great. About the same as the current 3rd year FOs.

 

[Freight Dog]

If the judge rules against the pilots, I sure hope every pilot off duty is at the courthouse with a resignation letter to hand in to the company right at the courthouse, and those flying walk off their flights and resign the minute they get home.

It would drive home a nice message to any management thinking about abrogating contracts under 1113(c).

But then again, you guys are on the front line, and this is your airline and your livelyhood. I wish you all the best of luck.

 

[Crizz]

Great. About the same as the current 3rd year FOs.

No, they're all furloughed... :angryfire

 

[suupah]

I am betting nobody quits. paycuts imposed. strike blocked. everyone bitches on FI.com

 

[xjlifer]

I am betting nobody quits. paycuts imposed. strike blocked. everyone bitches on FI.com

Bingo we have a winner!

 

[TurboAWD]

OH MY GOD!!!!

uke:

Someone just showed me the proposed payrates
All jets:
CA FO
$50 20
$52 24
53 26
55 29
56 30
58 31
60 31
62 32
64 32
66
67
70
72
74
75
76
77
79
Must pay 33% of medical insurance costs

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

According to (pre)Judge(iced) Kishel, the company can't impose until the 26th. Why announce on the 23rd and then give 3 more days til they can impose? He's already agreed that the company is hurting for cash, so why wait?

What is so important about those three days?

 

[XJohXJ]

As much as Judge Kishel seems to dramatically favor Management and the imposition of poverty level wages, I get the feeling that he is deluding himself into thinking that Management can be encouraged into "negotiating". HA! What a riot. The XJ labor coalition, whom I appreciate very much, has done enough bending and negotiating. Labor (the folks who actually make the money!) has gone from 0% up to 15% over the course of a few months.

That is exceptional movement, and prooves beyond a doubt that we are willing to negotiate and the whole hold up at Mesaba is entirely the fault of management. For cripe's sake, our 15% even gives them a 6% profit margin at any fleet configuration, under their own friggin' economic model. Pilots, please note that that includes a 5% pay cut, not a 15% pay cut. I know it still sucks, but there is a difference. YES, I KNOW, IT STILL SUCKS!

Meanwhile, our destruction seeking management has only moved from 19.4% to 17.5%, which is virtually nothing, and indicates an extreme disinclination to negotiate.

As much as I disagree with Judge Kishel, I can not believe he honestly thinks it's labor that has to move and finish this nightmare.

 

[blackbox]

Actually, he's probably delaying over and over again in an attempt to never have to actually make a decision. If this goes on long enough, the creditors' committee will demand an immediate liquidation to preserve what little is left of the cash reserves. Mesaba has no real assets, so the only thing the creditors can hope to get is the little bit of cash-on-hand that remains. The longer this drags on, the less money is left in the account, and the creditors will eventually say "enough is enough." When they do, the judge is relieved of this big burden and doesn't have to set any new precident. All he has to do is outlast the creditors, and he's home free.

I cant beleive thats the case. Because if it is, its a B*itch move. thats his job, thats what he gets paid to do. He's a bankruptcy judge for pete's sake. Its not like XJ would be the first he' ever ruled on. I am sure he has detroyed hundreds of lives by now.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I cant beleive thats the case. Because if it is, its a B*itch move. thats his job, thats what he gets paid to do. He's a bankruptcy judge for pete's sake. Its not like XJ would be the first he' ever ruled on. I am sure he has detroyed hundreds of lives by now.

The flight attendants at NWA are craving TA2 because they are working under TA1. It's only a matter of time before TA2 is back out for a vote. Then the NWA flight attendants will have an agreement and management will have the pay cut.

 

[Freight Dog]

I am betting nobody quits. paycuts imposed. strike blocked. everyone bitches on FI.com

Sad state of our industry, huh?

I wonder if trash truck drivers would come back to work if a judge imposed contract on them, or would they tell everyone to piss off?

Can someone explain to me what would be the difference between striking or massive resignations in protest of judge's rulings? If they're gonna shut the company down due to labor action, they're gonna do it regardless of what you call your labor action - mass resignations or strike. No such thing as forced labor.

 

[TAWS]

Do the negotiators report to the Judge? By that I mean, do they give him an update on how the process is going - are they impartial?
If they are impartial, and they report to him, I'm sure they're laying the blame squarely at the feet of mngt.
I think Kishel is stalling because he has to have his ducks in a row for this one, remember, he has already been shot down once by the higher court. Two strikes will have all the clerks snickering at his decisions. If he comes down in favor of mngt, I think the creditors are going to be just as pissed and may appeal. After all, a strike, followed by liquidation is the fastest way for them to go after MAIR's money.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Do the negotiators report to the Judge? By that I mean, do they give him an update on how the process is going - are they impartial?

Do you mean the mediators? I doubt the negotiators are impartial.

 

[xjhawk]

it seems to me that the judge has already made his mind up, we are all screwed, our only hope is that the appeal works as it did before. From what i hear, the judge is going against laws and precedant. How could he legally stop us from striking? would a work stopage at MESAba force the nation to come to a stop? i think not! Would it effect some small markets? i think so, and that is the reason for a strike. if a strike is stopped, then the rest of the transportation industry is screwed as we are now. In NYC, the rail workers were forced to not strike because they were not allowed a big enough pay raise! a reaise, where is my raise! i cannot go down like this.....and


to ypf.... your figures do not add up. i am a three year FO, and its not a 17 % pay cut, its like 6-7. do the math! i would not lose like 9 bucks an hour. either way,, i think our union should have resignation letters pre types up for everyone.

oh and whats with the ALPA national ??? are they doing something about this? are they prepared to have every regional to be at this level. imagine how that will hurt their income. oh, and i think they might make our dues go up so they still get their share! i liked what the guy said in the conferance call, we should be not charged our union dues as long as we are forced to work under these rules.

NWA will rule the world one day with their profits skyrocketing.....even in bankruptcy!

 

[YourPilotFriend]

to ypf.... your figures do not add up. i am a three year FO, and its not a 17 % pay cut, its like 6-7. do the math! i would not lose like 9 bucks an hour. either way,, i think our union should have resignation letters pre types up for everyone.

Those are the proposed pay rates taken from the company.

 

[W&BWiz]

Look at the timeline... Decision on whether or not we can strike on Monday, then three days til they can impose...sounds to me like he'll say we can strike to motivate mgmt to come down off their high horse and negotiate...just my 2 cents.

 

[XJohXJ]

Look at the timeline... Decision on whether or not we can strike on Monday, then three days til they can impose...sounds to me like he'll say we can strike to motivate mgmt to come down off their high horse and negotiate...just my 2 cents.

I sure hope you're correct. The only possible way to convince our appalling terrible management to actually move and truly negotiate is to unquestionably affirm our right to strike.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Look at the timeline... Decision on whether or not we can strike on Monday, then three days til they can impose...sounds to me like he'll say we can strike to motivate mgmt to come down off their high horse and negotiate...just my 2 cents.

Wow, I'm impressed. I like that theory a lot!

 

[TAWS]

If you win, you're screwed. If you lose, you're screwed.
NWA will NOT let any union win, at any affiliate, while they are in bk. I hope I'm wrong, but it's better to make it happen now, rather than endure the slow, painful death that mngt will force on you.
Having seen how RAH treats us (by no means perfect) and how XJ treats it's pilots (former SAAB gear monkey), I'm surprised that I ever thought they had a good thing going over there. Take hotels, we don't stay in top notch hotels here, but they are nowhere near as bad as the dumps XJ makes you stay in. Average hotel here = decent Holiday Inn or Doubletree. Average hotel at XJ = Red Fox (MQT) or that dump in London, not to mention the stuff out of MEM - SCARY!!
It's not all love and roses here, but we aren't treated nearly as badly as the crews at XJ - I wouldn't go back!

 

[xjgearbtch]

Hey don't diss the london hotel. It's all about location, LOCATION!!!!! Flesh Gordons right across the street!!!!!!! I saw a chick use those bouncy balls, with the handle, she strapped a "you know what on it" and bounced around on stage. Still brings a tear of joy to my eye when I think back.

 

[marycon]

HAHAHAHAHA LMAO!! Is this why we never have more than a 9 hour overnight in London anymore? dang!! It's all about the timing I tell you....