Wx Mins for Accepting an Instrument Approach Clearance

[MALSR]

Its not mins (plural) we are talking about...its just visibility that's required to continue past the FAF.

 

[Poahi]

If she's 17, you'll wish you had asked. Ignorance doesn't always absolve guilt.

and a go around isn't going to help either...

sorry, I couldn't resist...

 

[AvroJockey]

I need an answer and a reg for the following situation:

Flying into LAX, you are outside of FUELR for the ILS 25L on the arrival, and the weather is below mins. ATC says "reaching FUELR cleared ILS 25L." Can you accept this clearance?

We all know we can't go past the final approach fix unless we have the weather, but can we accept a clearance to begin the approach?

Please respond with the reg!

Thx
ST

As indicated before you can accept the clearance, but the question is vague...poorly worded. The way the question reads it says you're not cleared for the approach until reaching the FAF, and this would never be the case. You should already be cleared for the approach if you're doing the intermediate phase.

Almost everyone is correct about being able accept a clearance and to shoot the approach until the FAF. At that point you need RVR/VIS above minimums. In other parts of the world, this is formally called the Approach Ban.

 

[Alcatraz]

Speaking technicalese only, why would you want to ask, if you are not told?
AK

The situation in the question was that the RVR was below mins, and I think we're all in agreement you can't pass the FAF if it's below mins. Since I'm assuming ATC had to give us an RVR that was below mins, I would continue up to just prior the FAF (which is about 20nm after FUELR) and hope it gets better... but if ATC wasn't constantly dishing out RVR reports, I'd have to ask for it in order to know what it was!

 

[Alcatraz]

As indicated before you can accept the clearance, but the question is vague...poorly worded. The way the question reads it says you're not cleared for the approach until reaching the FAF, and this would never be the case. You should already be cleared for the approach if you're doing the intermediate phase.

Almost everyone is correct about being able accept a clearance and to shoot the approach until the FAF. At that point you need RVR/VIS above minimums. In other parts of the world, this is formally called the Approach Ban.

Actually in LAX if you're arriving off the CIVIT or MITTS arrivals (or whatever replaced the MITTS), you usually don't get vectored at any time. The arrivals end at FUELR, which also corresponds with an (or the?) IAF for the 25L ILS. Therefore, beginning at FUELR, you are no longer on the arrival and are now on a segment of the approach. So, yes, ATC frequently states, "Reaching FUELR you're cleared the ILS 25L approach."

The FAF, or point at which you cannot continue without required wx, is about 20nm after FUELR (and I forgot the waypoint name).

 

[Flyprdu]

Ceiling is not a limiting factor. Visibility is. Visibility only must be at or above minimums prior to being established on the Final Approach Segment. Once on the FINAL APPROACH SEGMENT, weather can drop to 0/0 and you are still legal.

On a non-precision approach, the final approach segment is defined inside of the final approach fix. Final approach segment on a precision approach is defined by the altitude on the glideslope as depicted in bold where the glide slope feather ends. This is on the profile view of any Jepp plate.

Whew, my head hurts. Where's my beer?

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Not if you're on an arrival that joins the approach, such as the CIVET. You almost always fly the transition from the CIVET to your respective runway.

My answer would be, yes, you can continue all the way to the FAF. Just prior to reaching the FAF, you'll need to ask for the RVR, which needs to be above your mins before you may continue. RVR can fluctuate so much it may actually be above mins, especially with fog from a windy marine layer (which is what? Advection fog?)

I think the basic idea is that it isn't dangerous to fly an approach at initial approach altitude, no matter what the vis on the ground is. You are in the clouds already, after all.

It is dangerous, however, to shoot an approach past the FAF down to mins. By that I mean that if you cannot reasonably expect to be successful, it isn't worth the risk to get within 200 feet of the ground going 140 knots.