Wuzzup at Pinnacle

[DoinTime]

Yes the rates are low. Almost as low as MAG. But it might surprise you that MAG's retirement contribution is much higher than PCL's. The result is that PCL has the lowest total compensation of any regional airline flying comparable equipment (CRJ or ERJ).

Numbers don't lie.

Your right that numbers don't lie but you offer no such numbers. Words, however, do lie and you offered many of those. I don't claim to know exactly what Mesa's 401K match is but it would have to be the best in the industry to overcome the shortfall in their wage rates even when compared to PCL. Mesa doesn't have anything that is industry leading.

 

[Cptn2b]

.....

 

[Lear70]

A friend at riddle in prescott, az said he saw like 50 new EMB's with northwest paint and "operated by Pinnacle" written on the side just chillin' in the desert...hmmm

*cough* Bullsh*t!

Nice try 1 post flamebaiter...

I believe Mesa is just slightly under PCL in terms of TOTAL compensation when taken as an entire contract over ALL seniority ranges and QOL issues.

So you really wanna whip 'em out and compare who's the lowest bidder?

When our negotiations are done, if we're still in the bottom 50 percentile of total compensation, I'll shut my yap about "lowering the bar".

I'll also quit and go back to the corporate world, as the only reason I'm sticking around is to try to have some type of "job stability" so that my resume doesn't look bad when shopping a job and hoping and pushing my fellow pilots to obtain a contract that reflects our contributions to a company that continuously posts a 9 digit yearly NET profit.

 

[erj-145mech]

A friend at riddle in prescott, az said he saw like 50 new EMB's with northwest paint and "operated by Pinnacle" written on the side just chillin' in the desert...hmmm

Lets see, first post, unbelievable stupid statement. Definitely ignore function on this tool.

 

[Notown]

Your right that numbers don't lie but you offer no such numbers.

So glad you asked.

I don't claim to know exactly what Mesa's 401K match is but it would have to be the best in the industry to overcome the shortfall in their wage rates even when compared to PCL.

Fortunately I have read Mesa's 401(k) plan. My source is the Regional Airline Association's "Wages, Work Rules and Benefits Survey 2003", using rates effective next year (2006). Take a two year FO who flies an average 82 hours / month. Excluding per diem or premium pay, at the end of the year a PCL FO will take home $24558.80 including PCL's generous "industry leading" 401(k) match. A MAG FO will take home 28772.16. $4213.36 more than a PCL FO. So who's at the bottom?

Admittedly this is the example with the greatest disparity. PCL's match gets better at 6 years of service.

Mesa doesn't have anything that is industry leading.

Didn't say they did. But after examining MAG's agreement, I was surprised how much better they are than PCL in some areas.

 

[Lear70]

So glad you asked.


Fortunately I have read Mesa's 401(k) plan. My source is the Regional Airline Association's "Wages, Work Rules and Benefits Survey 2003", using rates effective next year (2006). Take a two year FO who flies an average 82 hours / month. Excluding per diem or premium pay, at the end of the year a PCL FO will take home $24558.80 including PCL's generous "industry leading" 401(k) match. A MAG FO will take home 28772.16. $4213.36 more than a PCL FO. So who's at the bottom?

Admittedly this is the example with the greatest disparity. PCL's match gets better at 6 years of service.

Didn't say they did. But after examining MAG's agreement, I was surprised how much better they are than PCL in some areas.

You're being selective in making your comparison, and that won't fly. By limiting your "comparison" to only certain seniority ranges, you miss the big picture.

Again, when taken as a WHOLE contract over ALL longevity and seat pay scales plus all other compensation rules plus all other work rules, Mesa scores just under PCL by just a couple cents per hour and, admittedly, it's the 401k that does that damage. If our 401k was the same as the rest of our employee groups here, you wouldn't even be close.

This, by the way, is from the ALPA financial analysis people - the ones we go to in order to make sure that our "complete package" we're asking for in negotiations is industry leading without attempting to top the rest of the industry by such a wide margin that the company cannot sustain it, a la' UAL and DAL.

 

[Notown]

Mesa scores just under PCL by just a couple cents per hour and, admittedly, it's the 401k that does that damage.

Don't misunderstand - MSA as a company s*cks just as bad as PCL. We're comparing bad and worst. There's little benefit in that. If not for those couple of cents per hour, PCL would be the black sheep instead of MAG.

 

[PCL_128]

Don't misunderstand - MSA as a company s*cks just as bad as PCL. We're comparing bad and worst. There's little benefit in that. If not for those couple of cents per hour, PCL would be the black sheep instead of MAG.

Not quite. Pinnacle's contract was negotiated in '99. Mesa's contract is only a couple of years old. To compare the two is ridiculous. Our contract was negotiated for an airline that had a few dozen pink Saabs based in MEM. Mesa's contract was negotiated for a very large regional flying everything from BE1900s to CRJ900s. The fact that our contract beats Mesa's (even by a couple of cents) is just sad. It really shows how bad Mesa's contract really is.

P.S. Understand that I'm not attacking the Mesa guys. You had the Freedumb thing to deal with, so the sub-par contract is to be expected. It's just another example of how scumbags like the Freedumb and HoJet pilots can negatively affect the industry.

 

[DoinTime]

Fortunately I have read Mesa's 401(k) plan. My source is the Regional Airline Association's "Wages, Work Rules and Benefits Survey 2003", using rates effective next year (2006). Take a two year FO who flies an average 82 hours / month. Excluding per diem or premium pay, at the end of the year a PCL FO will take home $24558.80 including PCL's generous "industry leading" 401(k) match. A MAG FO will take home 28772.16. $4213.36 more than a PCL FO. So who's at the bottom?

Lets do your same example with a five year captain. Same parameters (82 hours/calander month and maximum matchable 401K contribution) but lets include 200 hours of per diem and any uniform allowance provided per calendar month now.

Yearly totals:

PCL captain:
wages - $61145.76
per diem - $3360.00
401K match - $1467.49
uniform maintenance - $240.00
Total - $66213.25

Mesa captain:
wages - $56717.76
per diem - $2904.00
401K match (assuming a 5-year employee gets the maximum match) - $1417.94
uniform maintenance - N/A
Total - $61039.70

Don't even get me started on things such as sick time accrual or "segment only" pay.

Admittedly this is the example with the greatest disparity. PCL's match gets better at 6 years of service.

Second year FO pay is the only example that has a disparity. All other longevity/status positions MESA is the bottom of the barrel.

Didn't say they did. But after examining MAG's agreement, I was surprised how much better they are than PCL in some areas.

I doubt you have read either agreement. You obviously have an agenda here and now your trying to support it. Anyone who has cracked the cover on both of these agreements knows the truth. Thats good enough for me.

 

[Lear70]

Not quite. Pinnacle's contract was negotiated in '99. Mesa's contract is only a couple of years old. To compare the two is ridiculous. Our contract was negotiated for an airline that had a few dozen pink Saabs based in MEM. Mesa's contract was negotiated for a very large regional flying everything from BE1900s to CRJ900s. The fact that our contract beats Mesa's (even by a couple of cents) is just sad. It really shows how bad Mesa's contract really is.

P.S. Understand that I'm not attacking the Mesa guys. You had the Freedumb thing to deal with, so the sub-par contract is to be expected. It's just another example of how scumbags like the Freedumb and HoJet pilots can negatively affect the industry.

Wasn't going to go there, but...

TRUE DAT! :smash: