Wow I only need 350 hours and 25k to fly an RJ?

[SkyBoy1981]

Kids, if you are thinking about an airline career, learn as much as you can about flying. Do yourself a favor and teach others how to fly. Teach primaries, teach a LOT of instruments, teach commercials and ATPs. If you arent interested enough to soak up everything related to flying and be the best possible instructor you can be, flying is probably not for you.

Thats what I did, but apparently its easier to put yourself in debt until you're 40 to get that job making 17k a year instead of actually working for it.

 

[Mesa Beer]

Less turnover = less training costs = more money for JO to buy more Harley's!

...makes me sick.

Actually I like sport bikes...

 

[dojetdriver]

Actually I like sport bikes...

Yeah, but JO probably likes the whole Harley thing so he can wear studs, the black SS hat, and leather chaps with nothing on underneath. Great Avatar by the way, funny stuff.

 

[FlyBunny]

Speaking of the low-timers versus the high-timers (or folks that get hired with the "published" minimums) I would actually be interested in seeing data on the wash-out rate between the two. Do the low-time bridge program grads fail out of training more often than the folks that have 1000+ hours? They all have to pass the same systems class, sim, and IOE, right?

First, let's not be jealous of JO's motor bikes...he's worked hard and deserves whatever he buys...it'd be like someone pointing to your vehicle and saying you don't deserve it. It's a personal thing...he's a businessman and if it makes you sick, you don't have to work for him. I've looked hard but can't find a single instance where he 'forced' anyone to work for him.

Second, you want to know the washout 'data' of those who get hired with less than minimums Vs. those with Minimums? Call Horizon and that's be a good start. It'd simply blow you away how well UND grads have done compared to your normal mom/pop, 135, etc. from the street-hires. No, I mean it...give'em a call. Talk to someone in training. Then, also do that with each of the regionals who have hired little 'Jimmy boy' from these schools.

And airlines don't have to wait for anything or ask anyone's permission to lower the published minimums. May be you want to sit and think HARD why they will hire the collegiate program grads with less than the published minumums. There may be few arrogant guys and gals from these schools who give most of them bad repurations, but you'd have to admit that their knowledge and skills are above average.

Airline selection and training records testify this fact.

Accept this fact and enjoy life.

Live & Let Live!

Bunny

 

[FlyBunny]

My sim partner at my last job was one of these 300 hour wonder kids.

He crashed on his checkride.

Twice.

And yes, in case you're wondering, he passed.

My simp partner - an upgrading captain - also crashed. Busted the ride twice and finally passed.

So, what's your point?

Bunny

 

[FlyBunny]

I love this. Back when some of you guys had 500 hrs., if you were offered a job on an RJ or TP, you would have turned it down, right? Sure buddy, keep on telling yourself that. Right or wrong, its going on and I dont think your career would be going in any different direction if they had ATP mins for the new guys. Remember, the guy that gets hired with 2000-3000TT is going to screw up in training, fail checkrides, have a bad attitude, accept the same pay rates, just like the 500hr. guys are going to do. Just get over it.

Well said, Johnny!

 

[FlyBunny]

There is no more stick and rudder pilots in those RJs... It's all about flight management and pushing buttons, a 250hr guy or gal can do that. and when it's get ugly....well hopefully the PIC will know what to do...

Believe me friend, there's no such thing as stick'n'rudder and 'seat-of-the-pants' flying with jets, especially CRJs, 747s, Airbuses...and that very FACT makes those planes safe to fly!

 

[FlyBunny]

The Quick Start Programs know which boxes need to be checked on interviews and in training. They can train to the checkride and ignore everything not applicable. Not much different than knowing your local D.E.'s "standard" checkride and training to it. Frankly, the PTS and FAR61 requirements even leave holes. As long as they never run into any situations outside of what they were trained for, all is well.

It works because the low timers are coming in with what they need to know to get the job, make it through the training syllabus and get to IOE. The IP's are the ones stuck getting them signed off and the line captains are the ones who are babysitting and keeping them safe and legal while they learn. Just like any other certification or qualification, it is the minimum standard and just a chance to learn more. Just like a new Instrument Rating, it is a great opportunity to learn a lot about flying or get dead fast. The big trick is knowing what you dont know and acting appropriately.

Kids, if you are thinking about an airline career, learn as much as you can about flying. Do yourself a favor and teach others how to fly. Teach primaries, teach a LOT of instruments, teach commercials and ATPs. If you arent interested enough to soak up everything related to flying and be the best possible instructor you can be, flying is probably not for you. Lose a bit of seniority down the road? Sure, but the industry is such a krap-shoot, who can tell if that year or two would make much difference in the long run? Luck may have it that waiting will benefit you greatly, especially if you are able to get a better feel for the industry before pledging you allegiance to any given seniority list, and have the qualifications to go for the one you really want.

If you dont LOVE the act and challenge of flying, do yourself a favor and go into another profession, you will be much happier in the long run. The pay, the lifestyle, the prestige; they are gone- or at least slipping away.

Ok, Ill come down off my high-horse now.....

YOU SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE TO TEACH IN ORDER TO BECOME A GOOD PILOT!
JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE HAD TO TEACH IN ORDER TO 'LOG TIME', DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO START DEMANDING THIS SO-CALLED 'PAY YOUR DUES' FROM OTHERS. JUST THINK OF ALL THOSE INCOMPETENT INSTRUCTORS WE ALL HAD...THERE ARE MANY THOURSANDS OF PILOTS FLYING FOR MAJORS, REGIONALS, CORPORATE WHO NEVER INSTRUCTED, BUT SOMEHOW WE WNT TO PUT THIS CONDITION ON THE RELATIVELY LOW TIME NEW HIRES...FUNNY.

 

[FlyBunny]

Thats what I did, but apparently its easier to put yourself in debt until you're 40 to get that job making 17k a year instead of actually working for it.

And what about those who are fortunate enough to 'all the money' and they are not in debt? More power to them...are you telling me that if your parents offered to pay for you'd simply turn them down? I think not! You simply did not have parents with deep pocket. I wish I did.

NEVER hold this against those who have the means to pay for training...and type ratings.

 

[Thedude]

Believe me friend, there's no such thing as stick'n'rudder and 'seat-of-the-pants' flying with jets, especially CRJs, 747s, Airbuses...and that very FACT makes those planes safe to fly!

Spoken like a neophyte....you too will soon learn.

 

[rtmcfi]

Believe me friend, there's no such thing as stick'n'rudder and 'seat-of-the-pants' flying with jets, especially CRJs, 747s, Airbuses...and that very FACT makes those planes safe to fly!

How much rj, 74, and bus time do you have?

 

[FN FAL]

Jitterbugs flying airplanes? That can't end well.

 

[tracearabians]

Whoa !**

 

[YourPilotFriend]

For $25,000 I can train any of you guys to be a janitor on a factory floor. I know that sounds pricey for that line of work, but at least you'll make more money than a pilot.

 

[CFIse]

Believe me friend, there's no such thing as stick'n'rudder and 'seat-of-the-pants' flying with jets, especially CRJs, 747s, Airbuses...and that very FACT makes those planes safe to fly!

Return to us and discuss when you have performed a visual approach from the downwind, too high to start, asked to "come to the numbers" and then asked to "square the turn to final" and then asked for S turns on final and then landed it in a 45 degree crosswind 15 gusts to 30.

 

[dojetdriver]

I think we have a new Rhoid/guppy killer/freight nazi.

FlyBunnny you are today's Summer's Eve Winner, congratulations!

 

[Leroy Smith]

YOU SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE TO TEACH IN ORDER TO BECOME A GOOD PILOT!
JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE HAD TO TEACH IN ORDER TO 'LOG TIME', DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO START DEMANDING THIS SO-CALLED 'PAY YOUR DUES' FROM OTHERS. JUST THINK OF ALL THOSE INCOMPETENT INSTRUCTORS WE ALL HAD...THERE ARE MANY THOURSANDS OF PILOTS FLYING FOR MAJORS, REGIONALS, CORPORATE WHO NEVER INSTRUCTED, BUT SOMEHOW WE WNT TO PUT THIS CONDITION ON THE RELATIVELY LOW TIME NEW HIRES...FUNNY.

You do not "need" to teach to become a good pilot. But there is no better way to learn about flying than teaching. Any pilot who is teaching JUST to "log time" is a parasite on the system and is worthy of contempt. If you just want to log time- tow banners, do sightseeing flights, do anything other than make a negative contribution to aviation by providing sub par instruction.

Better yet, just buy it. You dont sound interested enough in aviation to do it any other way. Get the loan, go to the rating mill, ace your guaranteed interview (after all, you're the best pilot you know, aren't you?). ATC, MX, dispatch and your captains will keep you out of the dirt and the CP's office (its their responsibility, isn't it?). Maybe you'll be lucky and get a quick upgrade (you deserve it, don't you?). Million to one chance that the defecation will ever hit the rotary oscillator (C'mon, these RJs practically fly themselves, don't they?). So it will all be just fine, won't it?

Bunny, you sound pretty convinced- so be it. There are plenty of fast-trackers and it usually works out for all involved. But all you out there considering your path in aviation: do what you need to do, but please, please, PLEASE dont be another POS time building instructor wasting their students time and money but leaving them under trained and not even knowing the difference.