Would you trade me?

[Dubya]

Not really that funny of a joke (average at best), and I don't even work for MESA. Try it without his future daughter and it might be funnier.

 

[chase]

Hardball,

I drifted from the majors forum to the regional forum and saw your interesting post/question. My apologies for intruding and my experience is a little different:

55 yrs, 20 yrs military, 10 yrs SWA. Never been at a regional or any GA to speak of.

Some very sound advice from other posters on here and these I echo:

1. Most important ingredient to pursuing your dreams, wife. If she doesn't appreciate your passion or is willing to sacrifice, then "man up" and stay with the job you have. Don't risk the chance she says "sure honey" and she doesn't mean it when you find yourself unemployed or facing tough times as a civilian getting tickets and experience....not if it will happen but when. Your current job may have that same stress but only you know.

2. The only title that matters is being a world class parent or spouse....pilot isn't on the top 10 but it is nice. Refer to statement #1.

3. If you have the means as suggested, use your time to enjoy GA by flying privately and filling the square there. I like playing sports and skiing but I'm not going to re-dedicate myself to becoming an Olympic skier either...enjoying flying comes in many ways.

4. I left one career in '79 to choose flying, it has paid off handsomely for me due to good timing and working reasonably hard. The same could happen for you....experts will tell you it is a great time to start getting your tickets and finding those little jobs that add up the time you will need to be hired by the next rung on the ladder and other experts will tell you it is a terrible time. The number of pilots vs. engineers is probably much smaller so the pyramid gets smaller as you near the top....the demand for flying isn't going to decrease but most likely increase however and the aging pilot demographic shows there will be a demand for pilots, experienced and inexperienced down the road. At what pay and how stern is the competition is the question....if you aren't up for the challenge, don't get in the pool....it is full of sharks.

5. Lastly, I couldn't image doing anything else in my life...everyday is a joy to go to work (OK, the vast majority of days), I commute (kids are out of the house now so it doesn't bother me as much but I was deployed a lot when I was in the military also when they were home) and I'm at one of the best majors around....I saw a military peer (we retired the same yr) the other day, same age who was leaving United marking his 2nd furlough in 10 yrs (never been a capt) but was going back into the military and being stationed in Hawaii with the AF for a 3 yr contract....talk about a good furlough option!!! Choose carefully grasshopper each job you have in the aviation career (if you decide to do it) because each one is like a cheese match, think a couple of moves ahead (ask a ton of questions like you are now...well done) but realize you don't have control over a lot of the variables.

Good luck to you, the decision isn't easy but either way it sounds like you have a good life generally speaking....wife, child and a love of aviation that won't go away....find ways to give back to others also is something I learned later in life, non-profits are a good way to go to find some of the fulfillment in your life that may not be as good as the aviation elixir but is close.

BTW, moving to Fair Oaks next summer but visit SAT quite often...send a PM if you wish to get together...always happy to share an adult beverage.

Cheers,

 

[skyguy40]

Hardball,
I have been fly for the airlines for 11 years now. I've been through 4 furloughs. This is my third airline. I was a captain for 2 out of 11. I've made around 20 something thousand every year but the 2. I have missed almost all holidays, Birthdays....too many things to list. There are some here that the doors have opened at just the right times and there are doors that just never seem to open for others.

There is stress in at any job. For me, low pay (running for bill colectors now), gone too much (just visting when I do get home) and just missing out on the really important things in life.

So here's the question for you. Could you live my life?

 

[FO 4 Life]

It's all about what's on the other side. I currently fly a 757/767 around the world. The flying I've enjoyed most since it became a job, was getting my seaplane rating in a cub.

Keep your day job and go fly a cub without the doors and windows. IMO, that's the most joy you will find.

 

[crashpad]

Following your dream is always the best option.

 

[LearLove]

If you want to be a career regional FO at Skywest, Republic, Colgan, Pinnacle ect. then by all means go ahead. Very few majors will hire even when age 65 kicks in. Every major job that has been outsourced is now a job at the regionals. The problem is 90% of the Capts at the regionals like Rep, skw, eagle ect. are going nowhere and they are all around their 30's and 40's so that means along time before they retire. Thus no movement. All the retirements at the major will be filled by thoes on furlough at a major right now. Read no movement or hiring.

The only thing left is the nationals like JB, Airtran and Spirit. The competition will be more fierce fir these jobs because of the limited major hiring and all the qualified (read PIC turbune ecpd guys) major guys on the street trying for ooption 2 and spending their remaining years at a national trying to make up some of what they lost at the major they were furloughed from (some 2 or 3 times.)

For example myself.

I'm 13 years into this career:

1 year as a 135 FO
1 year as a 135 CA
5 years at a turboprop commuter (ca upgrade but only for a short time)
4 years at a regional (MDA/republic) 2 as FO, 2 as CA
Just shy of 2 years at a major as an e190 FO (before I'm furloughed in Feb2010).

I've averaged 40K/yr gross and the most I've ever made was 85K gross as a Rep CA (e170).

After I'm outsourced in Feb I don't think I'll ever see US Air again. My best hope is that I can get picked up by JB or Airtran or Spirit and maybe in 10 years (by the time I'm 45) be a 737 or AB CA if they expand and some guy retire.

I'f I'm reall really lucky maybe UPS or FDX if they hire limited in a few years.

Other than above the only choise I face is to suck it up and go to Compass or Rep or SKW and be a career FO for 45K/yr gross untill I die.

Good Luck

 

[airplane wizard]

Would you rather be saying "roger....cleared for takeoff" or "will that be paper or plastic sir?"

 

[414Flyer]

Would you rather be saying "roger....cleared for takeoff" or "will that be paper or plastic sir?"

That depends. If was working for Jon Ornstein or bagging groceries, I may just choose groceries. At least I could still have my pride intact, life is too short to work for dirtbags.

I actually used to see an ex Luftwaffe F-4 driver bagging groceries in TX, and another one who used to fly F-104s that could go mow yards for work.

 

[HA XPEH]

I read a lot of posts here , but rarely post myself. The best advice I ever received is "find something that you love and make money while doing it"

I can't really say if i would still love to fly if I still worked at the regionals. I only worked there for 1 year. I jumped to the Corp side after 1 year. Before that I was a 135 FO for a year and a 135 Capt for 1 year. I now have the best job in the world flying Corp. Maybe an overnight here and there (1-2 per month) Good pay, good bennies, and great company to fly for. The best move I ever made was jumping to the Corporate world


I would add to any pilot out there is the best part about this job is it can allow you to make money on the side. Learn about investing, make money online, start another side business, and so on.

I would suggest buying a single engine(with maybe one good partner) and finding a good CFI to get you all of your flight training possible in the airplane that you own. When you sell that airplane you will still have a huge amount of equity and far less debt that financing all of your flight training with other means.

Sorry for the ramblings. There is a reason I do not post very often.

HX

 

[135guy]

I'll throw my .02 in here. I have always wanted to do the aviation thing as well. I don't know how old you are or where you are in life but, here's something to chew on. Personally, I think Chase has given the best advice you can get. The only thing I will add is look at the military option specifically the Air National Guard or the Air Force Reserve. If you're older than about 27 then this might not be an option for you. If your under that and have a 4yr degree there might be a fantastic oppurtunity waiting for you. I currently fly for the military and this saved my butt when I was furloughed a year ago from a regional. I made more money in the Guard than some captains at regionals this past year. I flew around the world and continued to build expereince for down the road. If you decide to go the aviation route it is absolutely critical to have a backup plan. If your wife can handle it (ie the ratings, you being gone, and all the other crap she needs to put up with in aviaiton) then pursue your dream. But, remember family first in your decisions.

 

[711-24-7]

I'll throw my .02 in here. I have always wanted to do the aviation thing as well. I don't know how old you are or where you are in life but, here's something to chew on. Personally, I think Chase has given the best advice you can get. The only thing I will add is look at the military option specifically the Air National Guard or the Air Force Reserve. If you're older than about 27 then this might not be an option for you. If your under that and have a 4yr degree there might be a fantastic oppurtunity waiting for you. I currently fly for the military and this saved my butt when I was furloughed a year ago from a regional. I made more money in the Guard than some captains at regionals this past year. I flew around the world and continued to build expereince for down the road. If you decide to go the aviation route it is absolutely critical to have a backup plan. If your wife can handle it (ie the ratings, you being gone, and all the other crap she needs to put up with in aviaiton) then pursue your dream. But, remember family first in your decisions.

Good idea as per military side! However; there are so many furlough guys out on the street, and in the military side of flying it is next to impossible to get picked up by the guards and the reserve units. Especially due to the fact that prior trained guys who left the military for airlines are going back to guards and reserve unit with their experience and contacts. Not trying to be a downer, just speaking by what I have experienced. Good Luck!!

 

[phr8dawg]

Well, they call it WORK for a reason. Not s'posed to be fun all the time.

As others have stated, I'd buy part of a plane, finish my tickets, and at least try it out in a few years. You can do part-time CFI and part-time 135 and keep your day job. Then bail if it doesn't rock your world. The personal sacrifices which come with a pilot career are very high and it shows no sign of easing up. Good luck.

 

[wooferdog]

I would suggest buying a single engine(with maybe one good partner) and finding a good CFI to get you all of your flight training possible in the airplane that you own. When you sell that airplane you will still have a huge amount of equity and far less debt that financing all of your flight training with other means. HX

The best post thus far. Believe me.

 

[airplane wizard]

I know the airline industry isn't anything like it used to be with the pay cuts etc, but I still think being a professional pilot would be one of the coolest jobs out there.

 

[airplane wizard]

I'd know what I would do if I had the money to build my multi time.

 

[JustaNumber]

I know the airline industry isn't anything like it used to be with the pay cuts etc, but I still think being a professional pilot would be one of the coolest jobs out there.

Don't sell yourself short--it appears you already are a professional pilot. Like any job, it is what you make it. I know your mileage may vary, but I had a blast as a CFI. I could have done that for my whole career, if it weren't for the food stamp thing. Being an airline pilot is also a very rewarding job, but again, it is what you make it. I will admit that luck is half the factor needed to enjoy a successful career, though.

 

[FO 4 Life]

I know the airline industry isn't anything like it used to be with the pay cuts etc, but I still think being a professional pilot would be one of the coolest jobs out there.

Just cause it's a cool job doesn't mean it will provide for your/his family.

 

[airplane wizard]

Just cause it's a cool job doesn't mean it will provide for your/his family.

I am not up on the current pay scales, but iirc isn't the $15,000/yr only for the first year or two?? Even at the regionals it seemed like you could do pretty good after the first couple of years? Unless I am wrong or things have changed.

 

[airplane wizard]

Don't sell yourself short--it appears you already are a professional pilot. Like any job, it is what you make it. I know your mileage may vary, but I had a blast as a CFI. I could have done that for my whole career, if it weren't for the food stamp thing. Being an airline pilot is also a very rewarding job, but again, it is what you make it. I will admit that luck is half the factor needed to enjoy a successful career, though.

Thanks. I really enjoy instructing too. I just do it part time. I don't have the cash needed to build my multi time.=( Maybe I'll win the lottery someday then I can blow it all on an aviation career. LOL

 

[20sx]

Maybe this question should be asked in the Majors forum. Are they as disgruntled with their flying as the regional pilots?
At this point, it doesn't matter to much anyway. There won't be any decent hiring for a few more years. Then, it should get much better and at the worst, always some hiring to cover attrition. Most pilots aren't complaining nearly as much when they are moving up the seniority list
If you have time, go back and read post from early 2007. Are pilots then telling everyone to leave the industry?
For what it's worth, I'm probably resigning from my regional job and am taking a "desk" job that pays enough so that I can live decent. If I really love the industry, I figure I'll get back in when there is movement again.

 

[rumrnr78]

Procede with caution!

Maybe this question should be asked in the Majors forum. Are they as disgruntled with their flying as the regional pilots?
At this point, it doesn't matter to much anyway. There won't be any decent hiring for a few more years. Then, it should get much better and at the worst, always some hiring to cover attrition. Most pilots aren't complaining nearly as much when they are moving up the seniority list
If you have time, go back and read post from early 2007. Are pilots then telling everyone to leave the industry?
For what it's worth, I'm probably resigning from my regional job and am taking a "desk" job that pays enough so that I can live decent. If I really love the industry, I figure I'll get back in when there is movement again.

If a career in flying is your goal, do not resign your position. How will this look to another employer? And, just where will you go, out of currency, haven't flown in a few years, etc. Don't think that Cessna 172 will keep you current. A future employer will want to see professional flying on your resume. Hang in there it will get better (or you will at least get used to the pain!)
Cheers- Rum

 

[IFLYASA]

If you are not sure, you can always build you time up and go for your ATP. By then, there will be a pilot shortage in the regionals and you should move up nicely.

There is nothing worse than sitting in a 9-5 job office watching the clock tic. At least with the airlines, your schedule is far from normal.

I've done the 9-5 in engineering. BORING.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

walking door to door at Fort Lauderdale executive airport handing out resumes to anyone with a pulse

Bimini Island Air!

 

[20sx]

I remember how desperate a lot of the regionals were back in early 2007. I figure it'll be the same again sometime in 2014 or after. The biggest problem is I need to do a little bit of flying, or I go into some kind of withdrawal
Truly a terrible addiction flying is.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Name your next girl Mesa, so when she gets older all the boys will know she sucks.

So that was a joke? Lame at best! But that's what we've come to expect from people with limited intelligence such as yourself.
Funny how you are giving advice on how to suck! I guess the old saying goes, "learn from experience."
Good one skooter! Keep it up, you're on a roll!

 

[Dubya]

So that was a joke? Lame at best! But that's what we've come to expect from people with limited intelligence such as yourself.
Funny how you are giving advice on how to suck! I guess the old saying goes, "learn from experience."
Good one skooter! Keep it up, you're on a roll!

Good job parroting the other guy. Try and get some original material. The whole "you're gay and stupid" is a little tired.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Man that's a tough question...

I can't really add much to what the other posters have said, except to say that the only people who really count in this decision is you and your family. Your wife is the most important component of your decision. She has to understand that if you become a professional pilot she will endure a great deal of hardship she never counted on. That isn't necessarily a bad thing... My wife believes it has actually been a good thing for her. She has built a lot of self confidence by way of my absence.

Being an airline pilot is cool. The comraderie is unequalled... My best freinds in the world are other pilots who I consider to be like brothers. Bonds between people are forged in the bumpy road we travel as professional pilots. The responsibility is enormous, although the compensation doesn't reflect it. The work can be a bit of a grinding routine... But still just different enough to hold your interest. Don't expect to get along with the boss. That doesn't happen much because of the nature of airline politics.

I have a family too... A great wife and two small kids who have never known another life, so they are used to this. Still, I miss a lot of milestones while I am away. I think the trick is not to expect "time off" when you get home. Be ready to work hard and play hard with your family. They deserve it. If your wife is willing and if you are sensitive to your family's needs then it can work.

You'll probably never make a mint, but if you take this route than at least you can say you did it. You are a pretty young guy, you have time for a couple more careers before you sit down in the rocking chair. Don't let FI scare you away from pursuing your goal to be a pilot. It is a tough job, but you may just uncover character you never knew you had and you will make friends that will last a lifetime. My $.02.

 

[country]

crj567 hit the nail on the head. LISTEN TO ME, I was in your EXACT same position.. retail job, wife two kids etc. Heck I even owned my on plane....I was 10 years older than you are now. I sold the plane, made the switch and was three years into it when 9/11 happened. I can't begin to tell you how bad it impacted our finances and my health. I currently fly corp and I am very very lucky I am not out on the street. Yes I really enjoy my job, but let me add to what crj567 said:
1. I'm almost 50 years of age. I have had two friends my age having a hard time with health issues. One of my good friends just lost his medical after having a fluke heart condition ...25 years of flying a lear and pooof gone...no pay check nothing. Another one used to fly for DHL. Cant find work at the age of 52. Not Fun.
2. My kids are in there late teens. I wish i could have seen them more the past 13 years.
3. Guys I worked with that are now retiring in retail have a heck off alot more money in the bank than I do.
4. If I had it to do all over again...and I have given my children this same advice. Make your money, invest wisely, buy a plane (if you buy it right its actually not a bad investment) get all of your ratings...make it fun. Then when you have some local corp flight departments needing a right seat guy in their King Air make yourself available for those weekend trips or burn a few days of vacation. One of our contract guys does just that.

I'm begging you please do not jump into this industry at this time. As you get older (and you will) it will become a job period. Yes I absolutely enjoy aviation, but flying for fun and flying for a paycheck are different solar systems apart. I always tell people it was a great way to ruin a good hobby. Now I restore old trucks.....I do miss flying GA....but I can't even afford to rent a plane anymore...If your wondering how serious I am about your question look at how long I have been a member here and how few post I make...Your question is a really important question that needs to be answered in the most objective manner possible. Thats why I decided to respond to this post.

Good luck, let us know what you have decided.

 

[khsgt]

This is the most civilized discussion on flightinfo that I have seen is a VERY long time, good job guys...

And they are right, stay with the desk job, and make enough to fly for fun. An FO once told me "All the FREEDOM I loved about aviation has been lost since joining the airlines, I don't get to pick where I go, when I go, how I go, who I go with, or even how to get there. The only choice I have everyday is what altitude I go at, and that is not the freedom of flying".

This is a rough business in good times, and absolutely retched in bad times, the sidelines with a good paycheck is a nice place to be.

 

[Twisted Mind]

At least let the job come to you don’t chase after a job. A good example of this is my buddy who took a job with Mesa did a two leg commute across a time zone to reserve. It took him a full day to get back and forth the kicker was he only had 8 days a month off. Oh yea and they were not weekends! Basically he was home for hours not days at a time. Some times he would just stay in the crash pad over his days off it was such a nightmare getting home. All for 20 some grand a year. I waited longer and took a job based near my house. The worst they can do is still not that bad. Although reserve still kind of sucks. We both made captain and are both in the process of getting down graded. With a very long wait for upgrade again. After 6 years we will both be making less that $30K a year. I would not recommend this career to anyone so I am not going to you, but I know most people will not listen and find out the hard way.