would you take this offer?

[WMUSIGPI]

ok here is the hypothetical scenario. Corporate flight department with a good reputation offers you a job as an F/O on a large jet (GV, Citation X, Falcon 900 ect.) The catch is you have to pay for your inital (or first recurrent) training/type rating. You sign a contract that after 2 (time frame negotiable if you want to make comments) years the company repays you the costs of this training as a way to keep people from taking the job and type and jumping ship in a few months.

 

[Timebuilder]

PM me with the fax number for "hypothetical", okay?

 

[corp_da20_guy]

I had it said to me once...that for an employer (especially a reputable one) who wants to enter into a long term "relationship" with a new employee, what sort of message is it saying that right out of the gate..."I DON'T TRUST YOU PAY FOR YOUR TRAINING" or "SIGN THIS CONTRACT". If the employer did a proper job in interviewing and background checks and references then this shouldn't be necessary in the first place. If they have gotten burned in the past by people who come get a rating and leave...what does that say about the employer. Why the high turn-over? Just my $.02!

 

[Capthuff]

LOL

TB you really are tracking down EVERY lead.

Cappy

 

[Capthuff]

I second Corp DA20 guy.
Unfortunatly tho, there is no line between reputable and unreputable. It is a sliding scale and companies practices differ from each other. A type for anything big like you are talking about is quite a chunk of coin. If the company can afford this A/C they can afford the operating costs associated with it. I would think the company should get a new CP if he/she decides to run the dept this way. Even though mutual trust is something that is built (not overnite), a thorough interview and background checks with give an employer a pretty good idea of weather said employee will jump ship or not. That is where loyalty to your present company will pay off. With excellent letters of recommendation from previous employers then there should be no reason to think that you would run out on this job.

My .02
Cappy

 

[Wiggums]

Come on, if it was a reputable flight department they wouldn't ask you pay for your own training. I don't have the numbers but doesn't the initial on a heavy jet cost around 30-40k? Are they going to pay you a lump sum after two years, or pay you back in installments? I’d have no problem with signing a contract, but the company better pay for the training. Anyways, if they want to reduce training costs can’t they just find someone who is already typed in the thing?

 

[Capthuff]

PS
I'm a contract pilot and the companies I fly for pay for my training and they know I'll never burn them.

 

[350DRIVER]

If the employer did a proper job in interviewing and background checks and references then this shouldn't be necessary in the first place

EXACTLY..... It is very unprofessional not to mention completely ridiculous to ask a "potential" employee to pay thousands to get trained with money out of there pocket. IF the company has enough faith in you to offer you the job then by all means they should be the one that is willing to pay for the training- no and's, if's, or but's about it. "well the employer just wants to make sure that he will be around and not jump ship" - absolute and complete BS in the first degree and pretty much a complete cop out by those using that point to attempt to justify this. IF the company does it's homework during the interview and leaves no rock unturned then they wouldn't offer someone a job who is going to pick up and leave after a short period of time.


Please name me one fortune 50 company that does this, or even a smaller respectable flight department that does this.?? I know of zero meaning "none" that makes the employee pay for the training.

I would NOT pay a single dime for this job, it is nothing more than a slap in your face if you opt to do this....

3 5 0

by the way (food for thought) money is not an object for most of these corporate flight departments so even if someone does up and go after a short time I highly doubt this will hurt the company financially.

That would be like the Simon company (IND) asking for the pilots to pay for their initial GV training- come on....

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Again this is a hypothetical situation. I don't know anyone offering something like this right now.

Ok would anyone's opinion change if this were a small company operating a small citation or BE-350 that simply couldn't afford to be burned by a couple guys taking new types and walking on the company. So they set something like this up to keep from putting the flight department out of business?

 

[corp_da20_guy]

Doesn't matter the size of the plane...if you can afford the plane...you can afford to play the game!

 

[Timebuilder]

TB you really are tracking down EVERY lead.

You won't believe the folder of info I have put together.

Phones will be ringing tomorrow!!!

 

[350DRIVER]

da20 is absolutely right, cost of training is not a factor if they can afford the airplanes. It is a slap in the face (a hard one) if one would choose to do this. Common sense goes a long way and I would question any flight department that would require me to pay for my own training up front and I laugh nicely then excuse myself from the interview.


3 5 0

 

[350DRIVER]

The sad thing is that many 135 operators will be catching on to what Eagle Jet itl. is doing and I can see this becoming a much larger problem than it is now. Just a matter of time before this occurs since their are enough fools out there to undercut this industry and it is a marvelous business move for the operator to not only not have to pay a first officer but in return they get paid by that individual for X amount of hours- this is just a matter of time before this gets out of control.....


King Air 90/100/200 100hr= $9900 - 250 = $13,400 - 500= $18,900

Cessna 402 = 1250 hours @ $31,900

Learjet 500 hours @ $28,900


this month from the back Flying.... Eagle Jet at its best-


3 5 0

 

[2000flyer]

EXACTLY.....
3 5 0

by the way (food for thought) money is not an object for most of these corporate flight departments so even if someone does up and go after a short time I highly doubt this will hurt the company financially.

That would be like the Simon company (IND) asking for the pilots to pay for their initial GV training- come on....

350 and all,

While I totally disagree with the idea of a new hire having to pay for his/her initial training, I will say there is a cost to the company. Not to mention a salary, benefits and so forth, but the training investment is, I repeat, IS a large sum. While I don't have the numbers for a G4/DA900, I can tell you with reasonable certainty a full service agreement at FSI will run between $20-30,000. An initial on a 900EX is in the neighborhood of $35,000. I don't know of any well run department that would think this sum of money is "of no object".

Again, and hear me loud and clear, I'm totally against requiring a new hire to fund his/her training, regardless if it is paid back or not. PERIOD! But, lest we not forget one of the darlings of Wall Street who has practiced this for years with great success and has no requirement to repay it's new hires. Anyone hear of SWA?

To the original poster. Be very wary of this type of employment offer. If they don't trust you to stick around two years, especially in this economy when there aren't a lot of jobs to be had anyway, can you trust them to repay you?

IMHO

2000Flyer

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

EXACTLY..... It is very unprofessional not to mention completely ridiculous to ask a "potential" employee to pay thousands to get trained with money out of there pocket.

How about requiring a type just to apply???

Please name me one fortune 50 company that does this, or even a smaller respectable flight department that does this.?? I know of zero meaning "none" that makes the employee pay for the training.
[/B]

SWA

I would NOT pay a single dime for this job, it is nothing more than a slap in your face if you opt to do this.... [/B]

I'd do it if I had no better options, sounds like an okay deal.