Would you leave CAL for NJA?

[ratherfish]

Guess what? Thurston and Lovie don't travel light.

The luggage compartment on my plane holds nearly 2000lbs. After that's maxed/bulked out, we can strap stuff to the empty seats. After that we cry uncle and FedEx the rest. Just when you think you got the puzzle all put together and you are soaked in sweat, Lovie lets you know that she left her meds in the first suitcase you packed which is now burried deep. Oh joy.

Yes CAL EWR B737, we do bags, catering, coffee, ice papers, restocking the pax snacks, napkins, booze, soda(in winter we unload all those liquids at night if no hanger available, then reload in the AM) brief the pax, verify their ground transp., climb a flimsy ladder to add oil on cold windy nights, make sure the schmidter works, etc, etc. We wear lots of hats but collect one salary. Genius on the part of RST.
Some things you just can't tip away if you want them done right.

Not trying to be a downer but the koolaid seems to flow a little heavy on this message board sometimes. It ain't like an airline job: check wx, kick tires, and go. It's that, plus all the other little stuff your company employs a small army to perform. We get to catch our breath in the air.

Side note, since we are going to be paid the same in the near future, I plan to bid a plane without a luggage compartment, I seriously doubt I'm the only one with that thought.

I love this job but hate being paired with someone who thinks he's above sweatin the little stuff. It gets old fast having to prod a slacker coworker. For instance, one who's content to use the same pot of stale coffee all 14 hour day.

We are the face of the company. We usually have the power to make or break a good experience for our owners. We are/should be customer service gurus. Some just don't get it.

Do your homework before jumping ship. It's a good gig but you earn every penny.

 

[CA1900]

... climb a flimsy ladder to add oil on cold windy nights...

That's one of those things I tip somebody else to do, and watch 'em.

What's a schmidter? Must be a Falcon thing.

I love this job but hate being paired with someone who thinks he's above sweatin the little stuff. It gets old fast having to prod a slacker coworker. For instance, one who's content to use the same pot of stale coffee all 14 hour day.

Yuck.... I actually flew with somebody who told me a story of flying around all week with the same pot of coffee. That's nasty... no wonder some of our pax profiles specify fresh coffee. uke:


Me, I change it several times a day, often after just one leg. As any coffee drinker knows, once it's been cooking for a while, it just ain't right!

Do your homework before jumping ship. It's a good gig but you earn every penny.

Good explanation. It's a good job, but it is a job, and a hard one some days. Some days it's really easy. If you can't easily adapt to last-minute changes, and think on your feet, you won't be happy here.

 

[Murphy]

here here attention in the court

Since when do we violate Kit Darbys teachings that a major airline is the peak of the job ladder

Hilarious! Nice avatar also!

 

[Willy21]

LOL! You sure you didn't break a sweat?!

With the new T/A and pay by seniority rather than pay by weight I think the Hawker might go senior. Thoughts from any G-200/ X / Falcon 2000 (not the EX) pics that might bid down.

 

[Mooneymite]

And none here will tell you that this career is for everyone. As far as the above points...

"Airlne Standardization"
We train like an airline with the same recurrent/intial training scenarios and frequencies. SICs actually train more than 121 SICs, attending a no-risk sim recurrent every other 6 months opposite their PC. We use SOPs and we have standard cockpits/checklists.

".

FlyLOW22...you are kidding, aren't you?

NJA standardization is an oxymoron! This operation is safe due to the personal professionalism of our pilots, but hardly standardized. NJA has a Looooong way to go before it is up to 121 standards. They need to get rid of all the Cessna 150 CFI's in the CMH headshed before we'll ever approach "standardization". The guys who write our SOP's are tryin' hard, but they don't have a clue. They certainly don't have the background. When I came here, I couldn't believe what passed for "standardization"!

Our biggest problem is that we don't do our own training. We use Flight Safety. They don't have a clue either. How can "WE" be standardized when we train in different Flight Safety locations all over the country and Flight Safety isn't standardized? This is an absolute joke. Until NJA takes responsibility for training, we will be no more standardized than Flight Safety...and Flight Safety is not standardized.

Things are slowly getting better, but we ain't even close, yet. Must be a WIDE variance in fleets if you're serious.

 

[FLYLOW22]

the LTD is tax free 60%of base pay.

Right. We know that... just trying to figure out if the 60% of base salary for LTD is then taxed after it's paid to you. I would guess that it could be as income...

 

[FLYLOW22]

FlyLOW22...you are kidding aren't you?

NJA standardization is an oxymoron! This operation is safe due to the personal professionalism of our pilots, but hardly standardized. NJA has a Looooong way to go before it is up to 121 standards. They need to get rid of all the Cessna 150 CFI's in the CMH headshed before we'll ever approach "standardization". The guys who write our SOP's are tryin' hard, but they don't have a clue. They certainly don't have the background. When I came here, I couldn't believe what passed for "standardization"!

Our biggest problem is that we don't do our own training. We use Flight Safety. They don't have a clue either. How can "WE" be standardized when we train in different Flight Safety locations all over the country and Flight Safety isn't standardized? This is an absolute joke. Until NJA takes responsibility for training, we will be no more standardized than Flight Safety...and Flight Safety is not standardized.

Things are slowly getting better, but we ain't even close, yet. Must be a WIDE variance in fleets if you're serious.

I was commenting on the airline style training program we have here, not the quality of SOPs. We actually have more training here at NJA more often than the 121 world. In some ways that's good, some bad.

I cringe when I hear from buddies that go into a PC with 1 or zero sims to practice. We get 4.

I like the aircraft fam flights (with no V1 cuts or stalls).

I like the fact that SICs go in for more than the FAA required 12 month PCs. "FAA Required" isn't exactly a gold standard. It's more of a disclaimer.

I've done corporate 91 training, regional training, major airline training and now NJA training.

No things are not perfect, never will be. They ARE pretty good though. The weak spots will continue to get shored up over time.

The new Dir of Training from US Airways (Jim Goreman SP?) will only fail here if management doesn't give him the tools he needs.

No, we don't have AQP here... but that's because AQP isn't a Part 135 approved option... yet.

Standardizing 15 fleets is a pretty daunting task too but I'm sure you've offered up your suggestions to the appropriate folks.

BTW, I am all for NJA doing it's OWN training with it's OWN instructors.

 

[Mooneymite]

BTW, I am all for NJA doing it's OWN training with it's OWN instructors.

I'm with you, brother!

Flight Safety IS the weak link.

Flight Safety is okay for corporate flight departments, but NetJets is now too big to outsource training. I know that our rich Uncle owns FSI and it's nice to keep the money "in the family", but trying to standardize NetJets without standardizing FSI is downright comical.

Two years ago, when I did initial, FSI didn't even have a copy of the NJA checklist for my airplane! Now, how standardized was I going to be when I got my type rating? Things are improving, but, goodness, gracious! We've got miles to go before we sleep.

I think the new USAir import will bring good things to NetJets' standardization effort, but FSI is our Achilles heel. The fleet captains who don't understand fleet standardization will have to learn what standardization really means, or will have to be replaced...the sooner, the better.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Right. We know that... just trying to figure out if the 60% of base salary for LTD is then taxed after it's paid to you. I would guess that it could be as income...

I will say it again flylow22, LTD is tax free, 60% of the base salary.....I repeat, it will not be taxed.
Any questions?

 

[Tommy Boy]

You are above me in seniority so I say.... Go to NJ :cartman: !!

 

[LJDRVR]

Would you change your mind if you knew UAL was going to be merged D.O.H?

If I had a crystal ball, I would have had my parents buy 10K of Southwest stock during the IPO in 72´.

You rolls the dice and takes yo' chances. NJA is a great organization, but CAL is a better fit for me.

 

[lookin4better]

LJ says it all.....its what you want and what suits you best.....this thread was not meant to be a 'mine is bigger than yours' thread, lets keep that whiney (sp) stuff on the regional forums...

I am sure they are both great places for different reasons.....NJ is most definitly a place that is parallel with a legacy when it comes to a job selection....and that is a good thing

 

[theskyking]

I will say it again flylow22, LTD is tax free, 60% of the base salary.....I repeat, it will not be taxed.
Any questions?

You can say it three more times and it still doesn't make it true. The 60% is taxed. You get the option of paying the tax all at once at the end of the year or paying as the payments come out. Also, you are capped at $5000 a month.


Surprise, surprise!!! More disinformation in FI. Maybe you should call the benefits dept. and ask some questions next time before you come on here.

 

[FLYLOW22]

hmmmmm

 

[FLYLOW22]

I will say it again flylow22, LTD is tax free, 60% of the base salary.....I repeat, it will not be taxed.
Any questions?

Some seem to disagree with your red words.

 

[Apeman]

As a recipient of having to take LTD, it IS taxable income at your current tax rate! Your 60% quickly becomes less than 50%.

 

[VmaxFlyR]

Tough call. Without a crystal ball, no one can tell you what to do. However, I'd definitely stick with CAL for a couple of reasons. First, I think the 121 world is at the bottom of a cycle. I don't think it'll get any worse. Second, there's a good chance that over your career, CAL pilots will negotiate some big improvements. Thirdly, NJA is about to enter into a deal that could tie them up for another 8.5 years. They could really get hammered by inflation. What you see, is all you'll be getting for about 10 years.

NetJets' QOL is good, but a 121 carrier can offer a lot of things that the NJA guys can NEVER have based on the kind of operation it is. You'll be cleaning planes, toting bags and flying into tiny little airports for the rest of your life. Doesn't matter how senior you get. You're never going to fly high time turn-arounds 12 days/month.

As far as commuting. Move to your base and give yourself the biggest increase in QOL imagineable. Do it while you and your family are young.

Pretty adept agrument, Mooneymite.
If you're looking short term, it looks like you'll make a bit more at NJA as a FO, but if you're looking at a 30+ year career, the greenbucks will be at Continental. The lack of COLA at NJA will negate raises after a few years. Also consider that no matter how long you fly at NJA, you'll probably be working half of all the weekends, until the day you retire--the general schedule you begin with is pretty much the one you'll retire with, for better or worse (kinda like a wife?) Weekly commutes are a b*tch at CAL, but then so are 7 day, basically unscheduled, trips at NJA. As Mooneymite advised, consider a move to within 2 hours drive time to a CAL base. A winter place in HOU, and a summer cabin in SE Michigan?
In general, they're two different animals--got a coin?

 

[yankee]

You shouldn't drink and post at the same time - you sound like an idiot. This is an informational forum and he asked some legit questions. People do make career-rated mistakes from time to time and he is asking some good questions. Thanks for adding NOTHING to this discussion.

Johnson....sounds like a "ROD"... You mean to tell me an educated person with alllll that training to get to Continental is not smart enough to research the QOL and work conditions at continental. I'm pretty sure he checked the interview gouge!!! ...and I sound like an idiot!?? SOrry everyone! I think I hurt jrods feelings.

Heres my contribution to the forum and my advice.....stay at COA!!!! Live in BASE!

 

[CRAWDADDY]

I thought the trolls left this board after the contract...