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macdu
Well-known member
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- 276
There are a few F/A's at the company I work at that have probably come close to that 65K! Like TWAD said, "It amazes me that anyone in 2007 thinks that 65k in any job is great pay!"
If you are 21 years old and single, yeah pretty good. Married, two kids, house, etc, etc......................, 65k is barely cutting it.
If you are 21 years old and single, yeah pretty good. Married, two kids, house, etc, etc......................, 65k is barely cutting it.
climbhappy
ex pat
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2002
- Posts
- 2,159
quote: bad juju on you!
yeah i agree. to imply someone is stupid for working for less money than established major carriers is ridiculous.
the industry has collectively lost over 20 billion the last five years.
paychecks were cut in half. now they're coming back.
the real risk is flying for a start up that might tank. doesn't make him stupid, just manages risk differently. he might have 2 million in the bank already, is 52 and doesn't give a crap if it's 65k or 165k
let's not forget about how effective ALPA is fighting for pilots apy either
yeah i agree. to imply someone is stupid for working for less money than established major carriers is ridiculous.
the industry has collectively lost over 20 billion the last five years.
paychecks were cut in half. now they're coming back.
the real risk is flying for a start up that might tank. doesn't make him stupid, just manages risk differently. he might have 2 million in the bank already, is 52 and doesn't give a crap if it's 65k or 165k
let's not forget about how effective ALPA is fighting for pilots apy either
.............
I don't live with mom and dad.......lol, but they do still pay my car insurance!
I don't live with mom and dad.......lol, but they do still pay my car insurance!
Lear70
JAFFO
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2003
- Posts
- 7,487
It's street CA.
So his thoughts about going straight from dispatch to that $65k job amount to exactly diddly squat. Ain't gonna happen with his flight experience.
Anyone who takes $65k for an Airbus CA slot is either incapable of getting a REAL job anywhere else, or too stupid to know any different.
Doesn't have anything to do with "risk management", has everything to do with a respectable wage. Hell, $65k is what I signed on for as a street Captain for Pinnacle in a d*mn RJ.
So his thoughts about going straight from dispatch to that $65k job amount to exactly diddly squat. Ain't gonna happen with his flight experience.
Anyone who takes $65k for an Airbus CA slot is either incapable of getting a REAL job anywhere else, or too stupid to know any different.
Doesn't have anything to do with "risk management", has everything to do with a respectable wage. Hell, $65k is what I signed on for as a street Captain for Pinnacle in a d*mn RJ.
roadrunnerblue
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2004
- Posts
- 69
Dude,
Most selfrespecting airlines require an ATPL for both Capt. and F/O positions.
You do not qualify. If Skybus is offering you a co-pilot with your qualifications you won't be making 65K either, more likely around what you are getting now.
Whoring, who cares anymore, we are in a whoring nation infested with whores (I do not agree with it and I do not whore myself out). So if you get a chance to move up and get that co-pilot slot , go for it!
Get a couple of years experience, upgrade and then get the fvck out of this country and go somewhere where they still respect the profession and compensate adequately. Malaysian airlines paid their 737 captains around $65000 not too long ago. Must be up somewhat now and at least lots of great f/a's and lots of respect. The food is great and the routes are nice. So the pay will be about the same there but the cost of living is lower and the P U S S Y much better!
Just a thought, good luck!
I made 65K as a 4th year EMB CPT at SkyWest. This year my wife & I combined broke 100k. With a mortgage, two kids, and a dog its quite depresing how little it buys you today. Yes there are things I can do to stretch my dollar. 1.Every longevity raise goes to my 401K. 2.I always pay myself first (10% goes to EmigrantDirect). 3.Starbucks is overrated and with enough Splenda even hotel coffee ain't that bad. 4. Drive a used car to work & let the wife & kids have the nice car. 5. Do not get divorced. Gas prices and inflation being what they are life is pretty expensive
Yeah if I was 21 and a swingin single 65K would be great, but NOT to drive an Airbus. Besides what happened to ACA when they decided to play the, "Who wants to be a LCC?" How much money is behind this startup? About the only startup I see having a chance is Virgin America. & If Branson ever gets the FED's approval he's gonna lose some serious cash getting the airline established
my .02
Yeah if I was 21 and a swingin single 65K would be great, but NOT to drive an Airbus. Besides what happened to ACA when they decided to play the, "Who wants to be a LCC?" How much money is behind this startup? About the only startup I see having a chance is Virgin America. & If Branson ever gets the FED's approval he's gonna lose some serious cash getting the airline established
my .02
Lear70
JAFFO
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2003
- Posts
- 7,487
Ain't THAT the truth.
We broke $100k together last year as well, and lived "comfortably". She had a new SUV, I drove my old Ford pickup and 91 3000GT (both under $2,500 and both paid off).
Even with that, we could afford one cruise, going out once or twice a month to dinner, anniversary, birthday, and Christmas gifts, and that was IT. Period.
Depressing how little $100k is after taxes, insurance, house, car, groceries, kids clothes, etc.
Oh, so you took the Northwest Airlines suggestions to employees booklet to heart, eh?
Dumpster diving - WOOOHOOO! How much fun can you have on a Friday night?
GogglesPisano
Pawn, in game of life
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2003
- Posts
- 3,939
No, I didn'tsee or hear of the Northwest suggestion. I have however read Rich Dad Poor Dad, Richest man in Babylon, a couple of investment books and subscribe to Money & smart money magazine. I can imagine doing this gig until I'm 65. I would rather do something else in my mid 50's and am doing everything I can to afford that.
capt. megadeth
Metal Momma!
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2003
- Posts
- 2,898
Ain't THAT the truth.
Depressing how little $100k is after taxes, insurance, house, car, groceries, kids clothes, etc.
Amen bro! It's not that much even without kids.
Driving a beater,
Capt. megadeth
Lear70
JAFFO
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2003
- Posts
- 7,487
Oh c'mon, chica. You know you want a couple.
Come visit in Nashville some weekend, I'll let you take care of our 11 year old drama queen going on 21 year old daughter and our 16 month old early Terrible Twos tantrum child.
Cure you right up!
(Just teasing, there's just no explaining how much fun the little one is. Couldn't imagine life with kids before I had them, now can't imagine life without 'em.)
p.s. Don't give me that "driving a beater" crap. What are you doing with all that extra cash? You're on year 2 or 3 UPS pay now, aren't ya?
Nevermind. Maybe I don't want to know what (who) you're spending it on.
Where was that website? www.ineedasugarmomma.com ?
Lear70
JAFFO
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2003
- Posts
- 7,487
Oh, sorry, I was making a little joke...
Back when Northwest was killing the F/A and pilot pay rates, they came out with a little booklet for their employees with suggestions on how to suck it up with the pay cuts.
Among the suggestions was, and I sh*t you not,
1. Dumpster diving and raiding your neighbors trash if you saw stuff laying out they were throwing away such as lamps, chairs, etc.
2. Instead of buying a copy of the paper or a magazine, watching the terminal seats and trash bins for copies that travelers throw away or getting them from the seats before the cleaners trash them.
Needless to say, it didn't go over very well...
What was that line Steve McCrosky said in Airplane about airline management and the FAA?
I know what you mean about working on retirement. Buying another foreclosure property for rental, just put the contract on it today. It's going to be a buyer's market the next 2 years.
capt. megadeth
Metal Momma!
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2003
- Posts
- 2,898
Saving up money to build a house and buy rental properties.
CA1900
Big Member
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2002
- Posts
- 5,435
Here's an article about the Northwest "suggestions" to their employees:
http://blog.aflcio.org/2006/08/17/northwest-airlines-to-laid-off-workers-eat-trash/
http://blog.aflcio.org/2006/08/17/northwest-airlines-to-laid-off-workers-eat-trash/
......
I never said I was applying or hoping to get a flying job with Skybus. I am firmly in the dispatching field at this point. Maybe with the regionals lowering their mins so much, IF I start flying again, I could get on with a regional like Pinnacle in a couple of years.....but knowing my luck, by the time I get the hours they'll take now, the mins will be back up in the thousands for Total time.
I never said I was applying or hoping to get a flying job with Skybus. I am firmly in the dispatching field at this point. Maybe with the regionals lowering their mins so much, IF I start flying again, I could get on with a regional like Pinnacle in a couple of years.....but knowing my luck, by the time I get the hours they'll take now, the mins will be back up in the thousands for Total time.
I may be a rookie, but at least I'm not an A-hole......This is probably why I need to get out of the aviation business.....I just don't feel the need to go around putting other people down all the time, acting like I'm some joe badA@@ cause I fly planes. I don't feel the need to go around shooting down other people's dreams and opinions because I'm bitter about the industry. Am I bitter, sure? But do I take it out on people getting started in the industry, absolutely not. I may be a rookie, yes, but I can at least show more maturity than you have shown.
And you all are right.....$65,000 probably doesn't get you much these days....well, when you factor in house, kids, groceries......alcohol, divorce lawyers....etc. etc.
And you all are right.....$65,000 probably doesn't get you much these days....well, when you factor in house, kids, groceries......alcohol, divorce lawyers....etc. etc.
Lear70
JAFFO
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2003
- Posts
- 7,487
Yes, you DID say that.
You specifically stated that it would be great to leave your dispatch job and get hired on making $65,000 as an Airbus pilot.
Don't try to hide from what you said, that just makes you look foolish.
Simply own up to the fact that it was a stupid thing to say, and move on.
nimtz
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Posts
- 1,442
Bye, Bye! Please let the door hit you on the way out...
......
Yes, I did say it would be nice to be able to fly for a living instead of dispatching while making 65K. Because in my opinion I could live a fairly happy life making 65K, on top of what ever my wife was bringing in. You're still living a very nice, middle class life. I never expected to live in a mansion by becomming a pilot. I did not say however, that I was applying to any flying job, or even saying that I was hoping to get on with any particular airline, like Skybus.
All I was saying was that for someone young like me, keep in mind who wants to fly for the love of flying and not the money, that $65K would be good money....especially for living in Columbus, OH. You may not think it's good money, and I'm sure it's not to fly an Airbus, but it's all a matter of personal preference on what's considered "good" money.
So I'm not trying to hide from what I said, because I actually re-read my post.
It wasn't a stupid thing to say....it was more stupid for you all to start ripping me. What ever happened to fellow pilots saying encouraging things to people trying to get started in the field......trying to help you out.....I remember when I was a kid I could walk up to a pilot in the airport and start asking him anything about flying and a career path to being a pilot and they would gladly answer with enthusiasm. I'm sure if I did the same thing now.....I'd probably get, "you're so stupid, you don't know anything.....rookie."
Yes, I did say it would be nice to be able to fly for a living instead of dispatching while making 65K. Because in my opinion I could live a fairly happy life making 65K, on top of what ever my wife was bringing in. You're still living a very nice, middle class life. I never expected to live in a mansion by becomming a pilot. I did not say however, that I was applying to any flying job, or even saying that I was hoping to get on with any particular airline, like Skybus.
All I was saying was that for someone young like me, keep in mind who wants to fly for the love of flying and not the money, that $65K would be good money....especially for living in Columbus, OH. You may not think it's good money, and I'm sure it's not to fly an Airbus, but it's all a matter of personal preference on what's considered "good" money.
So I'm not trying to hide from what I said, because I actually re-read my post.
It wasn't a stupid thing to say....it was more stupid for you all to start ripping me. What ever happened to fellow pilots saying encouraging things to people trying to get started in the field......trying to help you out.....I remember when I was a kid I could walk up to a pilot in the airport and start asking him anything about flying and a career path to being a pilot and they would gladly answer with enthusiasm. I'm sure if I did the same thing now.....I'd probably get, "you're so stupid, you don't know anything.....rookie."
Flying-Corporal
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Posts
- 174
I think what you said has been voiced soooo many times by those who have little knowledge of what an aviation carreer is like that it gets old to hear it again.
"Those pilots make too much money! They make 120k and work 20 days a month! I'd rather fly airplanes for 40k than sit in my cubicle!" etc. etc.
There is an essay from a Delta Captain about a carreer in aviation. It's a funny and an eye opening read. I suggest you read it first. I don't have a link but if you do a search in flightinfo you will most likely find the website where it's posted.
May be then you will get less emotional and realize that what you posted might be not too bright...
Lear70
JAFFO
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2003
- Posts
- 7,487
Wow. I think you missed your calling.
With that kind of self-delusional ability to spin things differently than they WERE ACTUALLY SAID, maybe you need to rethink that career in politics.
Or airline management.
Incidentally, guys post all the time asking the best way to further their career and get nice responses.
By posting in the Regionals section.
Without saying you'd take a job that the rest of us think is a BULLSH*T wage for the equipment and responsibility.
By doing a little research on their own to know things like that BEFORE they post.
When you don't do that, you're gonna get slammed on here. Especially on the Majors board, where people taking jobs for that kind of p*ss-poor pay is part of what is bringing the overall industry pay lower.
It's a touchy subject, and your post was seen as inflammatory by pretty much everyone who read it and responded here.
........
Don't get me wrong....do I believe pilots should get paid that much? YES!
Am I dissapointed that they don't? YES!
65K may not be much to some.....but it's all relative to what kind of lifestyle you live. Someone mentioned earlier that they brought in a little over 100K and that they only have 1 new car, were able to take a cruise, and were able to buy anniversary and Christmas gifts.......That's 1 more new car than I have, 1 more vacation than I've been able to take, and gifts that my wife and I couldn't afford to get each other.
Maybe it's my generation too.....keep in my I graduated college only a few months after Sept. 11th.....when I got out of college, I couldn't get anyone to hire me to do anything, and they weren't paying squat in the process.......many other people my age faced similar scenarios after graduation. So maybe we've just been more accustomed to not expecting anything big, and we've learned to adjust better than the people who already had it so well, and were forced to take significant cuts.
Don't get me wrong....do I believe pilots should get paid that much? YES!
Am I dissapointed that they don't? YES!
65K may not be much to some.....but it's all relative to what kind of lifestyle you live. Someone mentioned earlier that they brought in a little over 100K and that they only have 1 new car, were able to take a cruise, and were able to buy anniversary and Christmas gifts.......That's 1 more new car than I have, 1 more vacation than I've been able to take, and gifts that my wife and I couldn't afford to get each other.
Maybe it's my generation too.....keep in my I graduated college only a few months after Sept. 11th.....when I got out of college, I couldn't get anyone to hire me to do anything, and they weren't paying squat in the process.......many other people my age faced similar scenarios after graduation. So maybe we've just been more accustomed to not expecting anything big, and we've learned to adjust better than the people who already had it so well, and were forced to take significant cuts.
......
BTW,
I am bright.
I've already shown that I can make statements that are better constructed and thought out than say this comment:
"Isn't there a rookies board or a my parents still dress me board!"
Sorry if I seem like I'm getting too emotional.....I'm just not going to sit back and let people dish it out without returning the favor.
BTW,
I am bright.
I've already shown that I can make statements that are better constructed and thought out than say this comment:
"Isn't there a rookies board or a my parents still dress me board!"
Sorry if I seem like I'm getting too emotional.....I'm just not going to sit back and let people dish it out without returning the favor.
Lear70
JAFFO
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2003
- Posts
- 7,487
That was me, and that income statement wasn't just MY income, it was a combined income from my wife's $35k and my $72k on 5th year CRJ Captain pay which included being paid for almost 1,200 hours of credit for the year flying almost 90 hours a month.
In other words, freaking killing myself flying 18-19 days a month, 6-7 hour days block, 12-14 hours duty.
Never again.
I understand it was difficult.
Many of us faced similar situations.
When I got out of college in '94, there were NO aviation jobs to be had, absolutely zero, zilch, unless you were willing to Pay-For-Training at the Regionals.
I ended up buying an airplane and putting it on leaseback with a flight school just to get in the door as an instructor, then eventually sold it and made money off the deal (which had been the plan all along).
Spent 4 years making absolute CRAP in the instruction and charter market before I got hired on with Flexjet, my first good job. In the process I have turned down a LOT of jobs because they simply didn't make a respectable wage and I refused to whore myself out.
Sometimes that's just the way it goes; there's a LOT of people on here with similar stories. Somehow, we muddled through.
You can, too. Don't whore yourself out and you'll feel better about yourself when you get to your dream job.
Just my .02 cents. Good luck!
capt. megadeth
Metal Momma!
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2003
- Posts
- 2,898
The regionals forum is more brutal that the majors forum.
bg,
try the www.airlinepilotcentral.com forums, they might be a little nicer over there.
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