World / NAA aquisition completed

[HalinTexas]

ATA Holdings managment is now GAL managment. Mattlin-Patterson was and is the owner.

ATA bought the DC10's before the "merger." The PFE-Capt. issue has been a pain, but they won't have the time to hold wide-body captain for quite a while.

All three carriers have one very large client that is the biggest reason they exist. It is the US military. If GAL shops the three airlines it owns, then we are competing with each other for the same client we've had for years. This is the essence of whipsaw. This is the reason for single-carrier status. No scope clause can cover this, not to mention three scope clauses. You're deluding yourself if you think that maintaining three separate carriers is in your (our) best interest.

I know that some (most?) at World and NA think they will lose something if there is a merger. According to Airline Pilot Central, I could hold captain at both carriers. I won't see the left seat again for at least 3 or 4 years, assuming age 60 holds. I've heard many mention that DOH with fences is the way to go. I'm one of those. I'm not interested in screwing NA and World Captains from their earned and deserved seats.

I've heard that NA has a TA. Great! If you don't vote for it, you'll have no protection, and the NA management might just roll you into ATA or World anyway. Stapled. If you do vote for it, you may not get the scope or merger protection you want. I'm sure management has this in mind. I don't know the details of the NA contract, but right now ATA with it's concessionary contract is probably better than both World and NA's exept for MD11 pay. I don't know how long World will keep those MD11's however.

ATA's contract is amendable next year, so those rates will be going up.

A deal can be worked out. I could care less if ALPA is the surviving union, but I think IBT is worse.

Ques: Why hasn't NA showed up for two 3-way meetings? One was in ATL recently with managment.

 

[p3flteng]

NAA union reps were in the final negotiations for the contract TA. It was unfortunate that our guys were unable to attend due to this, but a contract is and was the priority. We now have a TA, but won't probably see it until the final language is worked out in a week or so. We won't miss the next meetings, I have strong faith in our unon leadership.

 

[bigboeings]

Why is it NA always seems to come out as the loser in all these suppositiions?

 

[HalinTexas]

Why is it NA always seems to come out as the loser in all these suppositiions?

it doesn't have to be that way.

 

[Snapshot]

How about those "New ATA Holdings" shares/warrants?

 

[tzskipper]

How about those "New ATA Holdings" shares/warrants?

What about them?

Skipper

 

[billjohnson321]

any idea on revenue for ata.i realize they are privately held just wondering if the company gave out any guidance.

 

[Bellerophon]

I don't know the details of the NA contract, but right now ATA with it's concessionary contract is probably better than both World and NA's exept for MD11 pay. I don't know how long World will keep those MD11's however.

How so Hal?

scope? Ours is with any holding company WOH sells to. Now GAL

retirement? Ours 1.92 plan. Is yours still 2% cmp?

rig? (we get rig everyday during layovers)

homebasing? Most of us do not live in LAX,DFW,ORD,IND or N.Y. (I forgot how to jumpseat and I want command of the remote where I crash)

note: If I read your side letter XXXVIII correctly, your DC-10 Captains make less than 30 cents more in the 12'th year. All other years WOA DC-10 Captains make more. You are correct about the MD-11 pay.

You do have a higher monthly Guar. tho.

Only 3 MD-11's leaving (our power by the hour ex-Delta birds). The rest are on long term lease

Bel

 

[HalinTexas]

I don't know the details of the NA contract, but right now ATA with it's concessionary contract is probably better than both World and NA's exept for MD11 pay. I don't know how long World will keep those MD11's however. "Concessionary" is the key word here.

How so Hal? Don't sit around and wait for something to happen. Be on the offensive.

scope? Ours is with any holding company WOH sells to. Now GAL I prefer Altoids. No scope is ironclad. There are many at ATA that think our scope has been violated in this deal.

retirement? Ours 1.92 plan. Is yours still 2% cmp? Yes, plus a 401k match.

rig? (we get rig everyday during layovers) No rig at ATA. One thing we need to change.

homebasing? Most of us do not live in LAX,DFW,ORD,IND or N.Y. (I forgot how to jumpseat and I want command of the remote where I crash) No home basing, but for the widebodies, our long call out is almost just as good. Homebasing doesn't work for scheduled service.

note: If I read your side letter XXXVIII correctly, your DC-10 Captains make less than 30 cents more in the 12'th year. All other years WOA DC-10 Captains make more. You are correct about the MD-11 pay. See below.

You do have a higher monthly Guar. tho. I believe this covers the above.

Only 3 MD-11's leaving (our power by the hour ex-Delta birds). The rest are on long term lease To be replaced by DC10's intended, orgionally, for ATA. This is what we were told last winter when we got them. This is a contentious issue out our company.

Bel

Right off the bat, we have something that puts ATA in conflict with "3 separate companies."

From Subodh Karnik, GAL CEO, concerning the GAL "aquisition:"

• And some more figures – we will be somewhere around 890 in the Fortune 1000 list, probably be the biggest charter airline in the world (if you include our Military Charter flying) and have more than a 75% share of the AMC business.

So what does this mean operationally and financially and how does this impact all of us at ATA?

Are we one, or are we three?

• Financially, these synergies will help us cushion the impact of turbulent markets – especially, gas prices, uncertain business climates, changes to the structure of the War on Terror, you name it.

How so? By whipsaw is my answer. MP/GAL will play us off against each other. They claim that "the whole" can be more efficient by remaining separate. It's sort of like polygamy. If you have three wives, how can that be more efficient than having one? How are the three families better taken care of when "management" is dividing its time and energy? If the wives know about each other, how well do you think that will go over in effieciency and profitability?

As you've stated, we're under a concessionary contract. ATA begins negotiations Oct. 1. The contract is amendable in 12 months. The "company" is compelled at that time to enter arbitration. I would expect that we would recieve significant improvments in our contract, unless we have to give up parts to save our jobs from being "side-sourced" to one or both of our partners. Now, its possible that we can gain conditions in our contract that would inhibit opportunities at World and NA. How would that make you feel about remaining separate?

When I said, "it doesn't have to be that way." This is what I'm talking about. I'm sure neither one of us wants to fight with the other two for advances in our careers. Why not work together towards single-carrier status?

 

[alpine1989]

any idea on revenue for ata.i realize they are privately held just wondering if the company gave out any guidance.

Combined Global Aero revenue is projected $1.6 Billion

Approximate breakdown

World Holdings = $888 million
ATA = $712 million