Woman Dies on AA. Ouch!

[jke406]

Pssst. Here's a little secret: the bottles weren't empty.

But that's what CNN said! Are you saying CNN would lie?

 

[skiandsurf]

I was flying a transcon flight. Prior to departure, this female pax came into the cockpit to talk to us. She was telling us that she has asthma, and thought we should know about it. She told us were her meds were, and also told us that she was a paramedic.

About an hour into the flight, the FAs called up saying that this pax was having a bad asthma attack. We got medlink on the radio, and had a doctor in the back. Talking to Medlink, the company dispatcher listening in, and talking to the FAs in the back. The medlink doc and the doc onboard, where saying we needed to land. With dispatch listening in, they sent an ACARS message to divert to DTW. They had notified our DTW ops that we were diverting inbound.

Now my case was different, as it didnt end in death, but you can get an idea of whats going on up there.

 

[LJDRVR]

But that's what CNN said! Are you saying CNN would lie?

You certainly believed their initial story. Why are you backtracking now with your pathetic attempt at sarcasm?

Answer my questions:

• Do you really believe American Airlines didn't have O2 on that flight?

• Are you an airline pilot?

 

[learflyer]

You certainly believed their initial story. Why are you backtracking now with your pathetic attempt at sarcasm?

Answer my questions:

• Do you really believe American Airlines didn't have O2 on that flight?

• Are you an airline pilot?

I bet the FA stuff was true though. Once again, airlining blows.

 

[LJDRVR]

I bet the FA stuff was true though. Once again, airlining blows.

Sorry you feel that way. As far as the FA's go, I'm betting you're wrong.

 

[Say Again Over]

If you care to admit, I will be telling everyone I know who asks me about this story that Airline (Wino) would do the same thing, and I'd never fly on them.

406, do some reading, what Wino says is soooo true, by the way, to administer oxygen requires some type of medical certification, it is considered a drug, sounds like AA was following SOP's?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Its about time jke406 got banned.

 

[ultrarunner]

And MD can call the time of death. The MD on board that makes this declaration doesn't give a $hit how far the deceased is away from the "jet bridge". It's been 'declared' and the time is noted.

 

[flydog1]

Pssst. Here's a little secret: the bottles weren't empty.

Were you on the plane, or part of the crew?

 

[kf4amu]

1. You cant be giving oxygen to every retard who says they need it. If you did, people who are hyperventilating would be getting oxygen...even though hyperventilating is a contraindication for oxygen administration.

2. High flow Oxygen doesnt fix people. It MAY prolong or increase vital signs, but it wont fix anything.

3. AED's wont shock a heart unless its in a specific rythym. Flatline is not one of them. So true, "it didnt work"...but then again it might not have been designed to.

4. Not a captain, but how do you determine the validity of a MD's credentials? There have been lawsuits against EMS, and doctors who assisted at a crash scene and claimed to be a "Doctor" but were merely a Chiropractor or Dentist etc. Without foolproof identification, you cant take their word or the onus is now on you for not doing due diligence.

Horrible reporting, but typical.

 

[LJDRVR]

Were you on the plane, or part of the crew?

No, but if you'll search the media outlets for American's response, you'll find the airline claims that O2 was administered and that the bottle worked.

Back to your original point: You claim that faced with a similar situation, if the Captain decided to continue you would

"call an emgerancy [sic] and land"

Again, my apologies if English is not your native tongue. I've been flying for twenty five years and I've never heard anybody refer to it as "call" an emergency. Did you mean "Declare" an emergency? (The phraseology an actual pilot would use?)

Regardless of your first language, what really amazes me is your suggestion that you would land anyway. Are you assuming control of the aircraft here?

I'm going out on a limb here:

You are a poser.

If you're for real, I'm glad I'll never have to share a cockpit with you.

 

[Bai B Nai]

Hey, maybe Les Abend WAS the captain on that flight?? He's always doing the JFK-MIA-Caribbeano routes.
Can't wait for next month's FLYING mag!

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Gents:

-There were 9 Oxygen bottles on that aircraft.

-A Doctor was on the aircraft and attended to the pax

 

[J32driver]

J32

Are you sure you wouldn't be sued for abandoning the pax and traveling companion somewhere short of the destination when there was no reason to stop?




...diversion is the wrong answer... ESPECIALLY ON AN INTERNATIONAL FLIGHT!

Cheers
Wino

International flights divert every now and then. Its a pain in the butt, but nothing more. But the logistics of the divert isn't the real question.

The only question is: Do you treat the passenger as if they are really dead or not?

I'm not saying what is right or wrong. All I'm saying is that if you choose the most conservative approach (treat the passenger as a medical emergency and divert) then you have done the best you can for the ailing passenger, and the best you can to protect your company from litigation.

When they put me on the stand, I want to be able to say that I did everything I could to assist my ailing passenger.

 

[Wino]

Okay,
So the jetstream operator still wants to divert.

So you divert, and you land 3 hours short of your destination and 30,000+ lbs overwieght. you land overweight, blow some tires, get a brake fire and evac the aircraft. 16 pax are injured in the evacuation and the aircraft needs a 1 million dollar inspection.

Still did the conservative thing? Or did you go off half cocked and injure people for no reason.

And you STILL haven't done the dead pax a favor. Instead of bringing him to his or her family, you have left her 1200 miles short of her family, who will now have to pay to have her transported to NY. Does a greiving family really want that extra burden? I know if my wife died on the flight, I would want the body IMMEDIATELY, and I would be pissed if they had dumped her like a sack of trash and ran.

Furthermore, if you happen to be Jewish, the body has to be in the ground by sundown, so again, how is diverting helping?



Cheers
Wino

 

[737 Pylt]

Its about time jke406 got banned.

Amen to that!

737

 

[AAflyer]

Something doesn't seem right. The flight is an A300. It's got to have more than two PO2 bottles.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL896

There are 14 02 bottles on board our A300s.

AAflyer

Media hardly ever gets aviation related news accurate, why would you expect anything different here.

 

[bubbers44]

All oxygen bottles are checked by FA's before their first flight so this is BS. You never want the passenger declared dead on the flight because then you need a release to continue to final destination if you divert. The passenger shouldn't have been flying in the first place and would have probably died in Haiti if she had not gotten on the flight. Hopefully the family and lawyers won't get a dime out of this one.

 

[Hung Start]

When they put me on the stand, I want to be able to say that I did everything I could to assist my ailing passenger.

She was dead. They brought her home.

Hung

 

[pipe]

Correct me if I'm wrong here (like you gotta ask for correction on FI).

International flight. Warsaw convention statement on the ticket stock limits liability to 75k doesn't it?

PIPE

 

[TWA]

Ok, before I say anything, I want everyone to know that I AM NOT an airline pilot. That being said, I have a question: Why is it such a bad thing to declare a pax dead on a flight? Just curious.

If you don't have a doctor on board, and can't declare them dead, wouldn't it be best to divert and let them officially die on the jetway? I would think that it would help keep you safe from liability because you "really didn't know" if she was dead or not.

This case sounds special because there were doctors on board. Since she did officially die, I don't think that there was any real reason to divert the flight. Oh well, she's dead, end of story.

By the way, the version I heard was the doctor on board had her on a breathing bag, and decided 02 should not be administered. Just what I heard from unconfirmed sources, disregard if necessary.

 

[Bjammin]

What is the big deal about diverting?!

I would say we have at least 1 PAX a quarter die during a TransPac and we will aboslutly divert to ANC or Japan depending on the direction of flight, no big deal.

You can not continue with a dead body in the cabin. Do you expect people to just go about reading their New York Times with a dead body in the cabin?

If you divert you are covered, no matter what. The family can't sue you for doing too little and the PAX can't sue you for emotional distress.

Let'e see some PAX try to sue the airline for not making the meeting with Joe Blow Boss with someone DEAD on board the aircraft.

CYA, period.

 

[kf4amu]

By the way, the version I heard was the doctor on board had her on a breathing bag, and decided 02 should not be administered. Just what I heard from unconfirmed sources, disregard if necessary.

Probably untrue. If a patients condition is so deteriorated they need forced ventilation, it requires 100 percent O2.

 

[J32driver]

So you divert, and you land 3 hours short of your destination and 30,000+ lbs overwieght. you land overweight, blow some tires, get a brake fire and evac the aircraft. 16 pax are injured in the evacuation and the aircraft needs a 1 million dollar inspection.

Cheers
Wino

Wow... you are really demonstrating your ignorance now!

Do you think your scenario above is what AA had planned when they were going to do the medical divert to MIA?

I would say we have at least 1 PAX a quarter die during a TransPac and we will aboslutly divert to ANC or Japan depending on the direction of flight, no big deal.

Thanks for the real world input Bjammin.

 

[Say Again Over]

J32, the bottom line is called the company COM or FOM, nothing is left to guess work, all real airlines have explicit procedures to follow. as mentioned by TWA, passengers are usually not legally deceased until the aircraft lands, in this case a medical doctor in conjunction with the Med Link made the call, at this point in time crews will notify dispatch and a collaborative decision will be made, if the decision is to continue, the Flight Attendant Manual outlines instructions for the disposition of the body.

 

[Wino]

bjammin,

What is the big deal about diverting?!

I would say we have at least 1 PAX a quarter die during a TransPac and we will aboslutly divert to ANC or Japan depending on the direction of flight, no big deal.

while I agree that several passengers die a year on the transpac operations, and aircraft are diverted, they are not "declared dead" on the aircaft. If they are and you divert, your duty day isn't long enough to continue the flight with the ensuing headaches, thus the "they died on the jetbridge" ploy. an excersize in semantics, I agree, but an important one. Ask your captain, or your dispatcher, or when you go back to recurrent.

You wind up putting em in a forward or aft galley (or in some aircraft lower level galleys, you don't leave next to the pax) But actually dead on the flight is a show stopper if actually divert. When it happens, (the crew was already dumping fuel when the doctor onboard declared em for example) its a trip to the hotel in ANC after you finally get released and either everyone waits or a new crew is flown out... Which ever can be done faster

Furthermore, 747s and 777s have the ability to dump fuel to avoid an overweight landing. Most other aircraft do not.

This is directly from boeing on overwieght landings.

Overweight landing
inspection requirements
The Boeing airplane maintenance manual (AMM )
provides a special inspection that is required any
time an overweight landing occurs, regardless of
how smooth the landing. The AMM inspection is
provided in two parts. The Phase I (or A-check)
conditional inspection looks for obvious signs of
structural distress, such as wrinkled skin, popped
fasteners, or bent components in areas which are
readily accessible. If definite signs of overstressing
are found, the Phase II (or B-check) inspection
must be performed. This is a much more detailed
inspection and requires opening access panels
to examine critical structural components. The
Phase I or A-check conditional inspection can
typically be accomplished in two to four labor​

hours.

Remember that you have duty day limitations, assuming a mechanic is ready to start a minimum 2 hour inspection before you leave, and the trouble with doing this inspection while the aircraft is in a custom's quarantine state.

So once again, who is ignorant J32?

Cheers
Wino

 

[J32driver]

So once again, who is ignorant J32?

Cheers
Wino

I'm not the one that got all dramatic and suggested we were going to wreck the airplane because of an overweight landing.

So now you've downgraded your rhetoric from a wrecked airplane to "needs a 1-2 hour inspection". That at least is back in reality.

You are arguing that the logistics are more important than the welfare of a passenger. I just don't agree with that.

For the record, I don't think I've ever said the AA crew made the wrong decision. I have said it wasn't the most conservative decision... but not the wrong decision. Read and comprehend my friend.

 

[Swede]

It's pathetic that supposed AVIATORS and professional pilots would swallow the first story, hook, line and sinker. You're the type who buys "World Daily News" and really believes Brittney carries an alien fetus, or Obama is really a genetically-altered bigfoot.

The media published it because it was sensational, not because it was true.

1) Bottles worked.
2) Defib worked.
3) Patient croaked. Doctor said so
4) "Grieving" relatives INSTANTLY thought "I just won the lotto."

Too bad a judge won't agree on point 4. Those people won't get a penny.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Here's what two enterprising crooks did with one dead body:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/09/nyregion/09dead.html

Even for the once-notorious Hell’s Kitchen neighborhood, it may have been a first: Two men were arrested on Tuesday after pushing a corpse, seated in an office chair, along the sidewalk to a check-cashing store to cash the dead man’s Social Security check, the police said.