Wind check!

[English]

I just read somewhere that AA has it in their FOM that they are required to ask for wind checks.

Is that true?

I'm trying to figure out why some pilots always ask for wind checks, even on calm wind days. I don't mean the occasional squirrelly approach where you can tell something is off. I mean every single leg. Can't they tell what the wind is by the way the plane is flying? And if not, can't they see the windsock?

 

[91100 100 set]

Sure, do what it takes with the controls to get the plane straight and on the centerline, but sometimes you might have some kind of abnormal limitation to comply with? Can't land with more than 15 knots of crosswind with inop nosewheel steering (ie. Dash-8)? Wind fluttering around and you just might end up being on short final with more than 10 knots on the tail?

Don't work for American, so I don't know about any of their specific procedures.

 

[TonyC]

Perhaps they can't see the windsock?


Perhaps they do it out of habit?


Perhaps they want to know if they should expect the wind to change in the last 200 feet?


Perhaps they're doing a Check Cat II or III and they need to record the actual winds in the Maintenance record?


Perhaps they like to hear themselves talk on the radio, and the radio call's free?


Perhaps they just are curious to know what the winds are?


I've run out of ideas...












.

 

[SSDD]

As I understand it, what you get at most airports when you ask for a wind check is the centerfield wind, which may, or may not be the same as the approach end. Every runway that I can think of, has a wind sock somewhere close to the approach end, that's the best way to find wind direction and speed.

 

[Pedro]

If you are in IAH you don't have to ask, you can count (that was close!!) on a 8-10 tailwind!

 

[Eagle-ista]

I like the pilots that ask for a wind check while a blimp is parked on the field. I heard a controller at MYF respond to a wind-check request with a blimp parked on the field with: "look at the blimp!"

Perhaps it's a good habit, but I trust my rudder more than a controller reading a gauge that checks the wrong end of the runway...

 

[FN FAL]

I like the pilots that ask for a wind check while a blimp is parked on the field. I heard a controller at MYF respond to a wind-check request with a blimp parked on the field with: "look at the blimp!"

Perhaps it's a good habit, but I trust my rudder more than a controller reading a gauge that checks the wrong end of the runway...

I'd trust a controller or a windsock more than an AWOS.

 

[Vector4fun]

The problem with asking for the "wind check" is; depending on the equipment on the field, it may not reflect the wind at the approach end at all. At facilities with the old LLWAS systems, our displays showed the 2 min average centerfield wind, and that was what we were supposed to give. But we also had 30 sec average winds available at the boundry sensors to issue. I don't know how the newest LLWAS systems display. My facility has WSP, (Doppler Lite), and our Only wind display now is the two minute centerfield average. There are NO more real-time wind displays in any cab I've been to in 15 years....

 

[Diesel]

I never asked for a windcheck in my life. All the planes i flew would handle any crosswind possible without any effort.

Since I moved to the X it has been a totally different story. That thing is literally trying to kill me. On takeoff and landing if you don't know where the wind is you're going to drag a wingtip down the whole runway.

In the X a 5 degree pitch up with a 3 degree bank will drag a wingtip and can be even less if you have more fuel on board. (wingtips are hanging down even more)

So know the wind on the ground even though it shows it on the MFD is really really important. I am getting used to looking at the terminal when touching down in a strong crosswind and the runway through the FO's side window.

 

[91100 100 set]

In the X a 5 degree pitch up with a 3 degree bank will drag a wingtip and can be even less if you have more fuel on board. (wingtips are hanging down even more)

Thats interesting stuff, I guess all that crazy wing sweep is to blame? I remember years ago seeing a chart detailing the pitch and bank angles that would drag various parts of the airplane for a 727. I thought it was interesting that in some cases, the leading edge flaps would drag first, but I don't remember what the specific numbers were.

Regarding the wind on the MFD (or whatever NAV display you have), about much delay would you say exists there? I would think that it oughta be pretty much instantaneous, or at least as fast as the GPS/AHRS can figure it out, but I've seen some pretty out of whack numbers displayed there coming over the fence, as much as 20 knots when the visual cues seem to indicate something way less. I understand the last 15 to 20 seconds before landing can be a very dynamic time making it very tough for the black boxes to crunch all the numbers, and if your AHRS is even a degree or two off, that could make all the calculations very incorrect.

 

[typhoonpilot]

I'm trying to figure out why some pilots always ask for wind checks, even on calm wind days.

Umm, because we forgot if the tower said cleared to land or not and would really like to cover up our forgetfulness with another method of getting them to say it again .... Of course these days I just type a "C" in the scratch pad of the FMS to remind myself.

TP

 

[FlyChicaga]

At the majority of airports, I've found the controllers will issue the winds in your takeoff or landing clearance. I have asked for a "wind check" when looking at the EFIS and seeing something crazy like 150/55 when I think the controller said 290/10. I'll just confirm what the surface winds are, and plan accordingly for an expected shear, low level wind changes for maintaining localizer or centerline, power changes, etc. However, like said above, those are a wind "average" for the field in some certain time period, and not the winds in the touchdown zone. So I still always search out the windsock on short final to see what direction it's pointing, how rigid it is, and if it's steady state or moving. If I see the windsock, that is what I base my expected crosswind correction on. Even so, I still just fly the airplane and do what feels right. All the formulas, wind checks, and flight computers in the world can't compete against "feel" and knowing what the airplane is telling you. Just my two cents.

 

[TonyC]

So I still always search out the windsock on short final to see what direction it's pointing, how rigid it is, and if it's steady state or moving.

Do y'all only land on runways that have a windsock on the approach end? Apparently I've been going to all the wrong airports, or at least landing in the wrong direction. Even if there IS a windsock in the vicinity of the runway I'm using, it's rarely lit well enough at night to be of any use to me anyway. All I have to go by, other than the winds calls from tower or ATIS (or cneter if tower's closed) is the crab angle on final.

hmmmmmm













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[semperfido]

i know a few pilots you wouldn't want to say wind check near

 

[AA717driver]

I never got any AA manuals (just a big brown box with a furlough letter inside... ). I don't recall any requirement to ask for a wind check, though.

They are probably using the chart in the manual that uses the wind differential from runway heading, taking into account wind speed, to determine how many degrees left or right of centerline to turn the airplane on approach given the reported wind.

Maybe they should try this--on final, keep the plane from drifting off the centerline by angling the longitudinal axis of the fuselage to prevent drift. That will tell you which way the wind is blowing. Then as you get near the runway, use the rud...

Oh, never mind. I think I lost them. TC

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I'm trying to figure out why some pilots always ask for wind checks, even on calm wind days. I don't mean the occasional squirrelly approach where you can tell something is off. I mean every single leg. Can't they tell what the wind is by the way the plane is flying? And if not, can't they see the windsock?

This is the million dollar question in ATL?

 

[FlyChicaga]

Do y'all only land on runways that have a windsock on the approach end? Apparently I've been going to all the wrong airports, or at least landing in the wrong direction. Even if there IS a windsock in the vicinity of the runway I'm using, it's rarely lit well enough at night to be of any use to me anyway. All I have to go by, other than the winds calls from tower or ATIS (or cneter if tower's closed) is the crab angle on final.

Nah, it's not needed. But like most things, if it's there, I use it.

 

[klingon67]

I usually ask for wind checks at SDL when you have been doing pattern work on 03 and the wind shifted to 210 degrees and they keep landing you with a tailwind until you inform them.they are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.other than that when the summer monsoon is active and its fun to hear wind variable 220 to 050 at 25 gusting to 45.not that knowing the direction helps my landings.

 

[Milkdud99]

Wind Check!

 

[PastFastMover]

I just read somewhere that AA has it in their FOM that they are required to ask for wind checks.

Where did you read that?

 

[sky37d]

I have asked for wind check, a couple, and it is has been something I didn't want to hear. However, also frequently, I have had it offered, and again, it was not something I wanted to hear. The most memorable was "Wind 270 at 33 gust to 40".

Fortunately, I was landing on 27. It was the day I was supposed to take my IFR check ride. The examiner called me up, after I landed, to say it was "real windy, we shouldn't fly today".

 

[Milkdud99]

Wind Check!

Wind is 359@10 G 55

 

[Bill Mostellar]

Someone may have already said it, but we have to add winds to our approach speed if there is a gust factor. That could be the reason you hear it so often.

I don't usually ask unless the plane is telling me that the winds on final are different than what the ATIS said there winds are supposed to be at the field.