Win for Jetblue pilots

[Smarta$$]

By the way, as an American, I EXPECT to get F-ed by corporate management (by initially introducing artifically low payrates on a new aircraft), but take serious issue with being F-ed by my fellow pilots (by mandating a permenant B scale)...

 

[linepilot]

Ok, I get it. You want money by any means necessary. And you have had many broken promises and lost some pay and benefits to pay for other pay issues within your pilot group.

I am NOT a blue tampon. Period. However, how can the company ever bring E90 pay to parity with the airbus? You will sue them again if they try, and you probably won't sign a PEA amendment that allows them to bring pay on the E90 up to parity, just to stick it to them...

So, in typical pilot fashion, as long as you get yours, you don't care.

Yeah, you can tell the story of how the company introduced the pay rates artificially low, and that it is their fault the rates were so low. Fine, but you are basically mandating that the rates remain artificailly low which only hurts hundreds of your own pilots. Not that you care. And many of those pilots are NOT the nod-your-head and worship at the JB alter types, like myself. But again you don't care.

You can tell the stories about simply wanting them to honor the contract, but the truth is you want MONEY. No matter what.

So what is the go-forward compromise that you (and your buddies) will accept to make sure there is not a permenant second class B scale at JetBlue?

I no longer care.

We could have stopped the slide with some support for the first ALPA campaign by locking things in and we got BBQd by our own "brothers."

We could have stopped the slide with a yes vote for JBPA and we got BBQd by our own "brothers."

We could have stopped the slide with a yes vote for ALPA-II and we got BBQd by our own "brothers."

Deaf ears now my friend.

Time's up for me and a union at this point does nothing to recoup the health plan that we could have locked in seven years ago.

And by the way, if by "I got mine" you mean that I got a job and a fast upgrade then SO WHAT! That's all I got and it took me 15 years to get it.

I don't owe YOU anything (jetblue owes me) and the opportunity to be a unified group of "brothers" went down the toilet last year.

We will ultimately be bought and furloughed and fragmented and a big pay out from 3A will go a long way to making that eventuality survivable.

 

[Smarta$$]

Typical. ******************** some Pilots because you were ********************ed by other pilots.

 

[shadesofBS]

Ok, I get it. You want money by any means necessary. And you have had many broken promises and lost some pay and benefits to pay for other pay issues within your pilot group.

I am NOT a blue tampon. Period. However, how can the company ever bring E90 pay to parity with the airbus? You will sue them again if they try, and you probably won't sign a PEA amendment that allows them to bring pay on the E90 up to parity, just to stick it to them...

So, in typical pilot fashion, as long as you get yours, you don't care.

Yeah, you can tell the story of how the company introduced the pay rates artificially low, and that it is their fault the rates were so low. Fine, but you are basically mandating that the rates remain artificailly low which only hurts hundreds of your own pilots. Not that you care. And many of those pilots are NOT the nod-your-head and worship at the JB alter types, like myself. But again you don't care.

You can tell the stories about simply wanting them to honor the contract, but the truth is you want MONEY. No matter what.

So what is the go-forward compromise that you (and your buddies) will accept to make sure there is not a permenant second class B scale at JetBlue?

How about the b-scalers and the no voters unify and run the next ALPA campaign? You all burned the OC folks out.

Not sure how much it can help since I'll be retiring in 6 years and I might be getting a 20% raise from 3A anyway.

But I suppose I would still vote yes.

 

[linepilot]

Typical. ******************** some Pilots because you were ********************ed by other pilots.

When you're young, you have the luxury and the years to be idealistic.

I was idealistic in my 20s and 30s, jaded but hopeful in my 40s, and now I am simply faced with the reality of retirement, health bills, college funds, a mortgage, and home repairs. I am not concerned about yours anymore and I could give a rats a$$ about the Bargers of the world.

The only people I'm willing to sacrifice for NOW is my own family.

Time's up.

 

[Smarta$$]

How about the b-scalers and the no voters unify and run the next ALPA campaign? You all burned the OC folks out.

Not sure how much it can help since I'll be retiring in 6 years and I might be getting a 20% raise from 3A anyway.

But I suppose I would still vote yes.

What do you mean you all? How did i get lumped in with "them"?

 

[Smarta$$]

When you're young, you have the luxury and the years to be idealistic.

I was idealistic in my 20s and 30s, jaded but hopeful in my 40s, and now I am simply faced with the reality of retirement, health bills, college funds, a mortgage, and home repairs. I am not concerned about yours anymore and I could give a rats a$$ about the Bargers of the world.

The only people I'm willing to sacrifice for NOW is my own family.

Time's up.

Yeah, I get it. You only care about yourself, and are willing to ******************** anyone, even if they had nothing to do with the injustices you have endured.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Don't worry, he'll be calling for unity once it benefits him.

 

[Fins Up]

I am NOT a blue tampon. Period.

Hehehe.

Seriously though, don't let any of this 3a stuff deter you from voting Yes during the next union vote. We do need a CBA by whatever means we can get one.

Sorry for the thread creep.

 

[linepilot]

Don't worry, he'll be calling for unity once it benefits him.

You mean like you?

Unity failed here. I got over it. I'm sure you'll get over the b scale.

Time's up for me but I wish you guys the best of luck.

 

[N311HK]

Bunch flying mercenaries and bankers. I'm finding it harder and harder to put the blue uniform.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Bunch flying mercenaries and bankers. I'm finding it harder and harder to put the blue uniform.

Especially the latest version...

 

[N311HK]

Especially the latest version...

That's not a shirt, it's a garbage bag

 

[Blue Dude]

But, assuming the pilots win, and the airbus gets a huge raise, how do we obtain reasonable parity between the E90 and the bus. So the bus gets a huge raise, and then if they try and raise E90 pay to 90% parity, they will just get sued again....

So really, 3A pilots are DEMANDING that E90 pay remain low. Or be sued.

No, there are a number of ways around this problem.

1) The arbitrator finds against the pilots. No harm, no foul, the pay scales don't change. (The pilots have already won the right to bring collective cases before an arbitrator though, so it has already been worth the trouble in my opinion.)

2) The arbitrator says back pay is due, but the pay scales going forward don't change. Dunno how he could arrive at this, but it's a possibility. Same result as 1.

3) The arbitrator orders a new pay scale for 3A people, but JetBlue doesn't change the scale for anyone else. E190 pay and non-participant 320 pay then remains tied to Airbus peer set industry average (PSIA) as it is now and it floats up with the industry. Within a few years PSIA catches up to the 3A pay scale (it's within 10% now) and everyone is back on the same pay scale. I consider this the most likely scenario if the pilots win the arbitration.

4) JetBlue embraces the spirit of the arbitrator's decision and raises all A320 pay to the 2007 3A pay scale. That would decouple the 190 from the 320 and pay only 80-85% of 320 pay. In a few years, PSIA catches up as in scenario 3 and the 190 is recoupled to the 320 at 90%.

5) JetBlue rewrites 3A to match their stated intent, and includes the rewrite with other contract language that makes it too good to refuse, so everyone signs it. This enables future 190 pay scales to catch up without triggering another 3A payout.

6) JetBlue doesn't change year 1 pay for any seat until PSIA catches up, while still keeping year 2+ up to date. This fixes everyone's pay without triggering 3A again.

I'm sure others are out there, but I came up with this right off the top of my head. If you look at the actual language, there's nothing there that locks in a permanent B-scale or underclass and plenty of ways around it. JetBlue's problem was ignoring a number of pilots who asked questions about 3A for years and were systematically and officially ignored. I'm pretty sure they're listening now.

 

[Smarta$$]

OK, that could be acceptable. Thanks for being thoughtful.

 

[Lake Alice]

Smarta$$ keep in mind some of the biggest BoB's/ANTI-ALPA pilots at Jetblue are on the 3A list. Blue Bayou, who lurks and criticizes everything CBA related, is on the list. Plain and simple Jetblue violated our PEA for the nth time but this time around we finally have the means to fight back.

As someone else mentioned you can use the 3A money to pay your legal fees when we are let go 1 year after the acquisition.
http://www.smallcapnetwork.com/JetB...L-LCC/s/via/3420/article/view/p/mid/1/id/798/

 

[curtaindriver]

No, there are a number of ways around this problem.

1) The arbitrator finds against the pilots. No harm, no foul, the pay scales don't change. (The pilots have already won the right to bring collective cases before an arbitrator though, so it has already been worth the trouble in my opinion.)

2) The arbitrator says back pay is due, but the pay scales going forward don't change. Dunno how he could arrive at this, but it's a possibility. Same result as 1.

3) The arbitrator orders a new pay scale for 3A people, but JetBlue doesn't change the scale for anyone else. E190 pay and non-participant 320 pay then remains tied to Airbus peer set industry average (PSIA) as it is now and it floats up with the industry. Within a few years PSIA catches up to the 3A pay scale (it's within 10% now) and everyone is back on the same pay scale. I consider this the most likely scenario if the pilots win the arbitration.

4) JetBlue embraces the spirit of the arbitrator's decision and raises all A320 pay to the 2007 3A pay scale. That would decouple the 190 from the 320 and pay only 80-85% of 320 pay. In a few years, PSIA catches up as in scenario 3 and the 190 is recoupled to the 320 at 90%.

5) JetBlue rewrites 3A to match their stated intent, and includes the rewrite with other contract language that makes it too good to refuse, so everyone signs it. This enables future 190 pay scales to catch up without triggering another 3A payout.

6) JetBlue doesn't change year 1 pay for any seat until PSIA catches up, while still keeping year 2+ up to date. This fixes everyone's pay without triggering 3A again.

I'm sure others are out there, but I came up with this right off the top of my head. If you look at the actual language, there's nothing there that locks in a permanent B-scale or underclass and plenty of ways around it. JetBlue's problem was ignoring a number of pilots who asked questions about 3A for years and were systematically and officially ignored. I'm pretty sure they're listening now.

I envision number 4 to be most likely. I'm on the 190, so back pay only..........but I just want to see us WIN something.

CD

 

[RiddleEagle18]

edit edit

 

[JetFumes]

I envision number 4 to be most likely. I'm on the 190, so back pay only..........but I just want to see us WIN something.

CD

You may be right. I thinks its more like a combo of option 2 and 5, but who knows.

 

[Bluejob]

You may be right. I thinks its more like a combo of option 2 and 5, but who knows.

I do. Today, we won.