Will the Mid-Air I survived, Kill me?

[John Hucklebery]

I'll try to keep this short and simple.

I was involved in a mid-air collision while instructing in a baron 55. We were level at 6500 feet cruising on a cross-country and did not see the aircraft in front of us until the last second. No one was hurt. I made a landing and reported everything according to regulations. There was no 'horseplay' involved, I just simply didn't see the other aircraft and neither did the three of my students on board (all commercial pilots and one instructor). FYI I don't allow anyone in the aircraft to talk accept the student up front unless its an emergency, so if your thinking distracted, its not what happened. I am most likely going to have a violation for failure to see and avoid and an accompanying suspension for 60 days (waived for ASRS).

I'm currently flying part 135 (caravan) and am grateful that I have a job, but I can't seem to get a straight answer on if this is a career killer. I'm 21 years old and ambitious as h$ll, but if I can't make the majors (Airlines or Fractionals) some day I might have to cut my losses here. I am willing to do what ever it takes to prove myself as a worthy professional pilot. Can anyone give me advice? Will the interviewers ever give me a chance?

 

[Andy Neill]

As the interview team might say:

"So tell us, what did you learn? How would you have prevented this accident from happening or how can you prevent it from happening again?"

By the way, I couldn't find the event as you described it in the NTSB database. [Edit: Oh, I found it now].

 

[PTWOB]

Midair

A buddy of mine had a midair in the early 90s. Same sort of thing. 2 aircraft basically destroyed with no fatalities. Investigation did not find him at fault. He was upfront about it on all applications and it wasn't much of an issue at an important interview (and successful) with a major airline. There is nothing you can do about the incident now except to think about what you have learned from it and what you can change or do differently to become a safer pilot as a result. Airlines want to see maturity and growth. Good luck!

 

[501261]

John,

Assuming there are no other issues involved than a violation of 91.113B a failure to see and avoid, I don't think you have too much to worry about. Granted it’s completely up to the Inspector to decide what kind of penalty you will receive. I'm sure those bloodsucking lawyers are telling you how bad the situation is right now and that Feds are out to screw you. Take what they say with a grain of salt, it is in their best interest to scare you so that you hire them!

If all you did was not see the other airplane, I think you could easily get off with a Warning Letter. I think a suspension would be overkill; the scare from the midair would be penalty enough for me. If you can get off with just a warning or remedial, it’s not going to hurt your career much. Hell, just about anybody flying has had a near miss and can relate.

On the other hand where you doing something questionable that might have contributed? For example, if I was an ASI and assigned to your case and found out you were in the back seat while the safety pilot and student were up front and everybody was logging it PIC, I would try to give everybody on board 180 day suspensions, because I personally disagree with this 3-way PIC BS! Or where you inside a Class B or not talking on the radio while, center was trying to get in touch with you. Was it at night and your lights weren't working? Again if all you did was not seeing him, no problem, but if something else might have contributed you might have a problem.

One last piece of advice get all your ducks in a row (logs, A/C logs, MX logs, accounts, etc) before talking to the FAA, with the advice of your lawyer. There are some George Demartini's out there, but most of the Feds are just trying to do their job. Be nice, courteous, professional and let the ASI do his job and hopefully everything will work out!

Good luck.

 

[banned username 2]

"I'm sure those bloodsucking lawerys are telling you how bad the situation is right now and that Feds are out to screw you."

"One last piece of advise get all your ducks in a row (logs, A/C logs, MX logs, accounts, etc) before talking to the FAA, with the advise of your lawery.

Not to be anal (ok I can't help it), but....

"Lawery" is the manufacture of tasty seasonings for cooking, they are especially good on beef, poultry and pork... and even white fish such as Orange Roughy and Talapia, but I would hesitate to use them on the steak type fillets such as Swordfish or Tuna....

and...

"Lawyer" is the blood-sucking, bottom feeding, amorphous blob you are referring to... These aren't good eating no matter how you cook them.... They tend to be rather rubbery on the outside and full of grissle on the inside... I would avoid these at all costs... There are much better culinary delights to be found elsewhere..

.... Ok I feel better now... Sorry...

ut, oh... Wapner's is on in 7 minutes! Yeah, definately Wapner...

 

[501261]

I've done that a bunch on this forum. My apologies! Is there any easy way to spell checker on the forum for illiterates like me? So I don't sound any dumber than I already am.

 

[bigD]

"Lawyer" is the blood-sucking, bottom feeding, amorphous blob you are referring to... These aren't good eating no matter how you cook them....

LOL. I have an ex girlfriend that is studying to be a lawyer. Talk about a double whammy!

 

[John Hucklebery]

What I learned from the incident

Well I learned that no matter how much you think you know or how comfortable you are in an aircraft, anything is possible. And a pilot must stay on his/her toes one hundred percent of the time. The frustrating thing is, I was focused. I just looked down for a second at the nose gear indicator (on the floorboard) to explain something, and when I looked up... And after this, I truly believe in Murphy's law "what can happen, will happen"

Secondly, they are giving me a violation for failure to see and avoid and careless operation (an add on to any incident/accident). I filed an ASRS form so I don't have to stop flying, but the whole situation is very frustrating. My lawyer says I have no case b/c I bent metal and by definition I didn't "see and avoid". There are guys I know who are dangerous, buzzing each other's houses, and they get warnings, I make a legitimate mistake and I get nailed. I just wish I could stick the FAA lawyers in the plane with me at the time of the incident and say see, there wasn't anytime to react differently than shoving the nose down (which by the way kept it from being five fatalaties), I didn't see the airplane. And neither did any of the three commercial pilots in the airplane with me.

And no, I was in the front right seat. I don't believe in that, "lets all log PIC" crap either, it's for liars. I let my two other students ride in back to observe, and let them learn from the other students mistakes. It increases their understanding w/o them ever touching the controls.

 

[Andy Neill]

John,

Thanks for the response. I wanted to hear it so I could give you a better assessment of what the future may hold. I think you got the point of the lesson learned. I didn't hear a response on how to avoid it in the future or what you could have done differently that day. Perhaps your point is that there WAS nothing that could have been done.

I read the NTSB summary of the event a got the shudders. You were a half second away from 5 fatalities indeed! You were also a haf second away from a VERY near miss. The other aircraft is completely blameless since you were both at appropriate altitudes on the same course in the same direction.

I would certainly keep the "other pilots do a lot worse things and get away with warnings" script to yourself in any interviews you may have.

I'm glad that you and four others are alive today and wish you the best in your aviation future.

 

[501261]

John,

Just read the NTSB report, scary stuff. Your Achilles heel might be that the report stated you overtook the archer, because now you might also be in violation of 91.113G. How far down the enforcement track are you? Have you gotten your Letter of Inquiry? Did you respond? Have you gotten a Notice of Proposed Certificate Action? Did you or are you going to go to the Informal Meeting? PM me if you don't want it public.

I still think you'll be fine, just from reading the NTSB summary I don't think you warrant a 91.13 careless charge. In the old days the Feds would throw 91.13 on just about every violation, but then 2 things happened. 1, the NTSB ruled you can violate the FAR's and not do it in a careless or reckless manner (i.e. you can buzz a house and violate 91.119, but that does not necessarily mean you wear careless or reckless). 2, In 2000 FAA HQ came down and said that they need to do a better job of rehabilitating offenders (i.e. it’s better to teach someone where the Class B airspace is so he doesn't intrude on it again, than just suspend him and hope he doesn't do it again).