Just had a beer with one a few days ago.
They are now 23. *wink* Bus is easier the 2nd time. They are behind the MEC.
-ciao
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Will Spirit Survive if they WalK?
- Thread starter 8v8tr
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Just had a beer with one a few days ago.
They are now 23. *wink* Bus is easier the 2nd time. They are behind the MEC.
-ciao
GogglesPisano
Pawn, in game of life
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How good of AvWeek to allow Spirit mgt to negotiate in public.
If they can't pay Spirit pilots a decent wage, maybe they shouldn't be in business.
BeachBummer
Well-known member
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Classic negotiation tactical press release. Those evil money gubbin pilots are going to destroy the jobs of 1600 people cause their so under paid and over worked.
Good Luck guys hope it comes out well. Hold the line!
If every Airline Pilot gave them $10 a week they could stay on strike
indefinitely ...I'm in!
BS...and thanks, by the way, for your words of encouragement...for that we thank you.
Spirit has more problems on their hands than an actual strike. Just the threat of a strike happening on a known date will start to drive business away from Spirit. Nobody who is booking a vacation wants it to get hosed up by a pilot strike. Airplanes are going to be very full this summer because of reduced capacity so if you have a ticket on Spirit on or after D-Day and the @#$% hits the fan you will find it nearly impossible to secure alternate airline transportation at the last minute. I hope the union cranks up the publicity machine and tries to drive bookings away from Spirit to get management off their a$$es.
The whole thing makes me wonder where the hell everything went wrong with these management teams. Southwest has done pretty darn well and built a great company by being decent to their employees. Why do all these other LCC's think that the path to success lies in treating your employees like dirt? There's got to be some smarter, more enlightened leaders somewhere in this industry who understand what's involved in building a truly great organization. On a per-capita basis I think the airline industry has more arrogant A-holes in upper management than pretty much any other industry I can think of except for maybe the US auto industry.
Good luck to the Spirit pilots and on behalf of all of us I thank you for being strong. If the management team chooses to take a strike and the company implodes then it was going to happen anyway at some point. The unionized pilots will get blamed but it won't be their fault if the management team uses a strike as an exit strategy from a bad business plan.
The whole thing makes me wonder where the hell everything went wrong with these management teams. Southwest has done pretty darn well and built a great company by being decent to their employees. Why do all these other LCC's think that the path to success lies in treating your employees like dirt? There's got to be some smarter, more enlightened leaders somewhere in this industry who understand what's involved in building a truly great organization. On a per-capita basis I think the airline industry has more arrogant A-holes in upper management than pretty much any other industry I can think of except for maybe the US auto industry.
Good luck to the Spirit pilots and on behalf of all of us I thank you for being strong. If the management team chooses to take a strike and the company implodes then it was going to happen anyway at some point. The unionized pilots will get blamed but it won't be their fault if the management team uses a strike as an exit strategy from a bad business plan.
Personally, I think Spirit management is talking out of their a$$. They're required to give notice of possible mass layoffs, so they put a little extra pepper on it saying that ALPA might burn the airline down. They're probably trying to scare a few of the weaker sisters among your group. Now that they have abused the Railway Labor Act for 3 years, there's nothing else Spirit management can do but cry poor and try to scare pilots with verbal intimidation and threats through the media.
I find it really hard to believe that these Spirit management dorks are going to give up their cherry jobs just to "make a point" with the pilot's union. I also find it hard to believe that the airline's investors are going to allow what appears to be a profitable Spirit (according to the latest BTS data) to shut down over wage increases that to the outsider (me) don't appear to be outlandish at all. Maybe they will, who knows, but I bet a deal comes together as this deadline approaches.
I love Cheetah's idea of some sort of donation outside of the strike fund they will eventually get from ALPA. Hopefully it won't go that far.
Good luck to the Spirit guys.
Muchos Gracias, the inhabitants of the death star, aka Mirimar HQ, are about to take a photon torpedo down a ventilation shaft.
I'd be scared too. The investors are getting nervous if a certain "tipster" can be believed. Everybody except William Franke is getting nervous. He would be too if he understood that the average Spirit pilot no longer gives a #$%^&*
enigma
good ol boy
- Joined
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- Posts
- 2,279
I missed this post the first time I read the thread.
It's not the fault of the tng dept unless you lump the FAA and upper management, and SAFETY into "tng". No, I am not in tng or checking or safety - nor mgt for that matter.
Upper mgt has changed tng methods and SOP about once every nine months for the last five years. The FAA signed off on all of it. The fact that we have NOT had a serious incident these last five years is a testament to the overall aviation skill and knowledge of the Spirit pilot corps. Not only has the tng methods and SOP changed often, the overall philosophy regarding the proper way to fly an airbus has flipped 180 degrees at least twice. Additionally, management decided some years ago to allow us to fly into mountainous terrain third world airports WITHOUT specific route qualification. That is, we received tng on one int dest, and that served for all other international destinations. Not until we started Bogata did we get anything other than a read file memo regarding places such as Honduras, Costa Rica, and overflying the Andes enroute to Peru. Again, the FAA signed off on all of this.
Where was safety in all of this you ask? Safety was busy searching for incriminating data hidden within the FOQA data. FOQA data is protected by the CBA of course, but that doesn't stop the company from looking at it, seeing something they don't like, and trying to find the identifying data from other sources. (As an aside, FOQA data is intentionally scrambled and can't be totally trusted like a true DFDR can be trusted. It is close, but not exact) So Safety finds incidents that look bad, they do some searching in crew trac, put two and two together and some crew ends up on some super secret double secret probation list. Unfairly so, it should go without saying but I'll say it anyway. Again, the FAA is part of the lynching. They too look at the FOQA data and jump to the same conclusions and therefore are happy to join in the high tech lynching.
All of that, combined with increased scrutiny because of Colgan's incompetent pilots from Buffalo,(and some internal politics) result in the FAA knee jerking every time some Spirit pilot gets near the edge of the envelope. Or looks like he/she got near the edge of the envelope. If the data seems to be ugly, or if the offending pilot in some little incident happens to be on double secret probation, 709 baby. The union/mgt relationship doesn't do anything to help either. In the past, union reps found a way to maintain enough positive company contact to make some of this stuff go away, but in the current contract negotiations, that ability is obviously gone.
Gotta go, so I'll end with this. The problem goes much deeper than a bad tng dept. Issues like these are a significant contributor to the overall "Shut it down" pilot mindset.
They might have to shutdown, so the reverse they might not have to shut down
nyboilermaker
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 18, 2002
- Posts
- 150
Call AFS 230 in Washington, if what your saying is true they will shut your FOQA program down tomorrow.
He flys for Spirit...what do you expect? He can't be the sharpest tool in the shed.
A buddy told me ten years ago their Seniority #1 guy was an FO who had failed Captain upgrade three times. The company gave him the option of permanent FO, or he could try and upgrade one last time and if he failed he would be terminated...
The guy had frickin tape holding his glasses together!
That was in a direct-cable, steam-gauge 9. I can't imagine that rocket scientist on the nerd bird!
wtf guy?
Who pooped in you Wheaties this morning?
Did you mess up an interview with Spirit? And were not offered a job?
What is with the anger?
No anger. I actually support you guys and your effort.
BUT...expecting the Vision Airlines guys (who are a non-union shop and have NO protection) to fall on their swords is total BS...
You guys knew what Spirit paid when you hired on. It's not the same as wanting a concessionary give-back PAID BACK like NW in 1998.
The writing was on the wall when you walked though the front door at Spirit. And that's fine ...but don't expect other pilots to lose their jobs over it...
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Shrek
Well-known member
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- Oct 25, 2005
- Posts
- 1,640
Says the GoJet pilot.........rofl:laugh:
I don't recall saying that...or expecting that they not cross the picket line. I did know what Spirit paid when I made the decision to work here, also a completely different place than when I interviewed.
But when you say "you get what you deserve for working at Spirit" what does one think?
What exactly does that mean?
What I said EXACTLY was and I quote "If you hang your hat there , you get what you deserve".
What that means in my book is Spirit is not a place to hang ones hat.
Stepping stone: Yes.
Career: Why?
enigma
good ol boy
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 2,279
I would say that you are an _____, but no. I'll just show your ignorance.
The Spirit seniority list includes many pilots who would have a place to hang their hat, except that the AA cloakroom ran out of hooks. You sound like a person who has forgotten September 11, 2001. Maybe you always were a low paid FO and having not seen the benefit of seniority you don't realize that a senior pilot position at Spirit is better for certain peoples lives than a junior position at any major for those of us who have twenty five or more years in this industry.
Why do you smear the Spirit pilots with your implication that they would have left if they could?
A significant number of Spirit pilots found Spirit to be the shelter from the storm called Lorenzo. AirFlorida and Midway (the first Midway), terrorism, etc.
In this business, we take the first job we were offered, and I'm sure you did yourself. Yes, some of us expected to move on, but the Jihadist's changed that.
You're really not changing anyone's mind with your implication that pilots who chose to stay at Spirit are in some way inferior.
Why do you begrudge us our attempt to raise our standard and in doing so help others from being drug down to the Ryanair level?
pilotyip
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 13,629
Nicely said
Very nicely said. Not everyone gets hired at FedEx two years out of ERAU, like Boycapt. There is an element of timing and luck that play much greater roles than someone's skill and desire while progressing through a flying career. JUS pilots are also often maligned the same way as being pilots who can't get jobs at other places. However if the timing is right many have gone to SWA, NWA, DAL, JB, AT, NJ and even Spirit, (move up) and dozens of other places they feel is right for them.
castle bravo
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2003
- Posts
- 283
Wow!
...Simultaneously arrogant and ignorant, and both to the extreme.
The gentleman that you slander happens to be a very nice person. Obviously you don't know him. It's also obvious that you don't know much about the pilot group at Spirit.
If Vision operates for Spirit during the strike, and pilots operate the airplanes, they are scabs, period. And it's no BS. Vision pilots are big-boys and also knew what they were getting into as well by working as "at will" employees.
It's only "slander" if it's fabricated. Is it?
The only thing I know about "the Spirit pilot group" is that they are about to get a couple of my Friends at Vision fired...
FLYBOYMATTHEW
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- Joined
- Jan 17, 2006
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