Will flexjet pilots kill off whats left of the fractinal profession?

[el raton]

Even though the Flex pilots are not members of the 1108, the negotiating committee is trying to protect them in the fence agreement.

i keep hearing about fences, and that's great, but are the fences permanent? How could they be?

If there's furloughs, will they be by DOH regardless of fences? Probably not it screws the Flex pilots.

There will be new aircraft...who will crew them?

Certain fleets are going away...will the fences protect those captains from moving to the options side as first officers?

What about our first officers, will they have to wait till every Options pilot has upgraded before they get their chance?

I keep hearing that "fences are for our protection" but its load of sh!t you're trying to sell us. The fences will expire at some point and time and most of us at flex will find ourselves at the bottom of some sh!tty seniority list bitter about being lied to by Options pilots and KR.


GC, I don't want to sound like an a$$ hole to you but I see us (Flex pilots) taking the brunt of the screwing form the teamsters and KR..so I'm a little pissed.

 

[el raton]

Right over your head, u didn't get my post at all.

Go ******************** yourself!

 

[slowtation capt]

i keep hearing about fences, and that's great, but are the fences permanent? How could they be?

If there's furloughs, will they be by DOH regardless of fences? Probably not it screws the Flex pilots.

There will be new aircraft...who will crew them?

Certain fleets are going away...will the fences protect those captains from moving to the options side as first officers?

What about our first officers, will they have to wait till every Options pilot has upgraded before they get their chance?

I keep hearing that "fences are for our protection" but its load of sh!t you're trying to sell us. The fences will expire at some point and time and most of us at flex will find ourselves at the bottom of some sh!tty seniority list bitter about being lied to by Options pilots and KR.


GC, I don't want to sound like an a$$ hole to you but I see us (Flex pilots) taking the brunt of the screwing form the teamsters and KR..so I'm a little pissed.

You ask these questions as if we have the answers for you. The people that know are not saying anything about it. Did Deanna not talk about it on Yammer before she disappeared to some remote island. These are the people that know, not us here on FI. Just like any negotiation, until it is agreed to among the parties involved and negotiating, only after that do the minions find out the full details.

Ask it on Yammer, call KR, call the union leadership. But seriously any answer on here about what is being negotiated, you are not going to get any worthwhile answer.

Go ******************** yourself!

My my, testy!

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

El, All I can tell you is without the union ,you have ZERO input. Do I like the teamsters? Not really, but when it comes down to my future, I stand up for what I believe is right. If you can't stand for a unified pilot group, stand to the side because you will get run over.

 

[FR8DOG777]

It's amazing, a dirt bag charter operator abuses it crews so badly they finally do something and vote in the IBT suddenly making them the star of the hour. Meanwhile FJ, who is currently the second in pay and benefits in the fractional industry, is killing the profession? Let's use some common sense before posting

Please just let this thread die.

Can someone please explain to this person there are only two fractionals left? We are not going to have a meeting of the minds here because you sir with all your experience are the smartest guy on this forum. Big dog, your string of luck ran out September 05,2013. You will ALWAYS be second highest paid fractional pilot. Your pay and benefits will go down, but you can retain that title.

 

[FR8DOG777]

One union
one voice

fair integration

one stand, enough is enough

we are professionals and should be compensated as such

we have one chance at this, quit messing around!

 

[993_Pilot]

i keep hearing about fences, and that's great, but are the fences permanent? How could they be?

If there's furloughs, will they be by DOH regardless of fences? Probably not it screws the Flex pilots.

There will be new aircraft...who will crew them?

Certain fleets are going away...will the fences protect those captains from moving to the options side as first officers?

What about our first officers, will they have to wait till every Options pilot has upgraded before they get their chance?

I keep hearing that "fences are for our protection" but its load of sh!t you're trying to sell us. The fences will expire at some point and time and most of us at flex will find ourselves at the bottom of some sh!tty seniority list bitter about being lied to by Options pilots and KR.


GC, I don't want to sound like an a$$ hole to you but I see us (Flex pilots) taking the brunt of the screwing form the teamsters and KR..so I'm a little pissed.

You ask a bunch of questions that can't be readily answered. The bottom line is that if the Flex pilots want to have fences, or have a say in anything, including seniority integration, then you need to embrace the idea of union representation. If you trust Kenn Ricci and are content to NOT have a say in anything, then continue to fight it. Just be careful what you wish for.

If it helps you to think of it as making a choice between the lesser of two evils, so be it. Just keep in mind that the union is what you make it. The pilots who bitch the most about unions are by and large the ones who don't bother to get involved, and just sit on the sidelines and complain about the results of other peoples efforts.

I am not trying to monger any fear here, but the way I see it, you can embrace the union, roll up your sleeves and get ready to work and to have a voice, or reject the union, buy a big tube of KY, and embrace KR's "Management by Trust" philosophy. It really is your choice.

 

[FR8DOG777]

I honestly think the majority of the senior folks at flex understand he situation hey find themselves in. Some junior, okay,most, do not get it or will ever get it. Protect what is left, stand tall and band together. Look yourself or in the mirror and ask a simple question. Am I here to build and contribute to this profession or tear it down. It don't get any simpler than that.......you decide!

 

[luckydog]

Can someone please explain to this person there are only two fractionals left? We are not going to have a meeting of the minds here because you sir with all your experience are the smartest guy on this forum. Big dog, your string of luck ran out September 05,2013. You will ALWAYS be second highest paid fractional pilot. Your pay and benefits will go down, but you can retain that title.

I'm not going to let your post go over my head because I'm sure you mean the opposite of what you're really saying.

I am not the smartest guy on the forum, Cabbie owns that, but I'm not a moron either. My luck ran out long before 9/05/13 as did everyone else at FJ.

There are still 3 national fractional operators: NJ, FJ, FO. FJ and FO are moving towards becoming a single steaming mess but we're not there yet. Our moto will be "We're number 2".

You are quite correct that our pay and benefits will only be reduced. We are familiar with KRs favorite phrase: In order to bring your compensation in line with the other DAC companies...
It's obvious he's not sending you guys the same memo with cash and 401k matching in the envelope.

If the fence agreement turns out to be some short term, token piece of crap, and the integration plan is DOH or outright staple, almost every FJ pilot will stagnate in their seat or downgrade. The FO crews will move out of their value brand P300 and take the higher paying seat claiming it's their right by seniority. Career expectations will not even be considered.

Personally I don't think any of this matters because most of the owners I fly have stated that if FJ becomes Flight Options, they'll leave. It's also clear that Kenn's management style has already killed the culture at FJ. That culture is why the owners chose FJ of FO in the first place. Without something to differentiate FJ from the NJ, they'll choose the latter. They all give the same reason, "you know it's owned by Warren Buffet". No one ever says they want to be part of DAC because it's owned by Kenn (<---with 2 'n's) Ricci.

Since you and several others have decided to make this a personal thing against me, I'll go back to watching the show as you try to convince the FJ crews that the sh!t sandwich you trying to serve us is really just another crew meal. Good Luck with that.

 

[slowtation capt]

Personally I don't think any of this matters because most of the owners I fly have stated that if FJ becomes Flight Options, they'll leave.

This is why KR is slowing migrating everything towards the FJ branding. Didn't really think Flops could pull off selling 500Billion worth of Gulfstreams.