Will flexjet pilots kill off whats left of the fractinal profession?

el raton

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Well in Riccis world, Riccis idea of percentage placement is different form Joe Q Pilots idea of percentage placement. It was done with a little "Ricci flair" on it after the Raytheon merge.

Explain the "flair"?
 

shanes123

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Basically he does it the way he wants and names it whatever he thinks the pilots want to hear. Example: we will call it percentage placement if it makes you guys happy..And then does it his way. Bottom line as important as seniority is not everyone is going to be happy in a merge. There has never been one merge of a seniority list where everyone was happy and never will be. But there are a lot of other important issues that need to be addressed and you want the pilot group making those decisions not management. I personally wish we never had to merge the list but that's not realistic.
 

dime line

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Explain the "flair"?

A lot of Riccis Boys are more senior than they are suppose to be.

(Understand (to the RTA pilots) I'm not trying to open up what happened 10 years ago, I'm just showing what happened back then.)
 

X-rated

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Well in Riccis world, Riccis idea of percentage placement is different form Joe Q Pilots idea of percentage placement. It was done with a little "Ricci flair" on it after the Raytheon merge.

That might very well be true, but you didn't answer the question. It seems some would feel entitled to a virtual staple as a result of straight DOH. Good thing your boss lives in a fantasy land and got told to piss off.
 
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FR8DOG777

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Your right the title should have read are flex pilots going to let one man ruin what's left of the fractional profession? Think about this. You watch what RICCI does to the hard working men and women at options who have been here since the inception of the fractional industry. He is strangling the life out of these hard working professionals and has kept 95% of the pilot group under 100k a year for a decade and a half, with no retirement. Wait till he points those barrels at you. Could have done without the argument from an fo who thinks flex is the greatest place ever and no longer runs up and down the terminals eating hot dogs and can buy more video games.
Do not dismiss our experience with RICCI so quickly. You have already began the slow game of chip away of your pay and qol at flex. An extra leg a day, a little lower screwing ratio, an increase in duty time, a few vacation days here, threaten of loss of retirement match.
We will not see a reinstatement of the 401k match at options. I do like the angle the union is advocating, by shaming RICCI and bringing public attention to the matter. The fact is RICCI has already rationalized it away as a suave business transaction to be bargained back for in trade for something else; I.E. lower pay. As the majors see large gains in salaries and retirement contributions, the man that owns you now would very much like to see your salaries and retirement plummet.
So now begs the question. Are you telling us it is going to be different with you guys this time around? You are going to keep him at bay without a union? That would be quite impressive
 
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dime line

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That might very well be true, but you didn't answer the question. It seems some would feel entitled to a virtual staple as a result of straight DOH. Good thing your boss lives in a fantasy land and got told to piss off.


Your very right, there are those that would want a pure staple of the FLEX sn list. But I think that most of us want a fair integration. I think we are a more mature pilot group, most of us on property have been here for more than 11 years, and even more RTA guys are still here, those pilots were on the receiving end of Riccis idea of an integration.
 

Frac Cap

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el raton, I assume you were not seriously asking the question if XO or TMC would be in favor of date of hire. Just in case you weren't sure what they would want, I would say every single one of them would want percentage. In that system, a guy that was hired in 2005, could conceivably go to the front of both of our lists and be in front of guys with ten years more seniority then him.

I don't want to open up this can of worms at this point. I just wanted to give food for thought.
 

el raton

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el raton, I assume you were not seriously asking the question if XO or TMC would be in favor of date of hire. Just in case you weren't sure what they would want, I would say every single one of them would want percentage. In that system, a guy that was hired in 2005, could conceivably go to the front of both of our lists and be in front of guys with ten years more seniority then him.

I don't want to open up this can of worms at this point. I just wanted to give food for thought.

So should a pilot with 14 years of service at Options stay ahead of a Flex pilot with ten?

Percentage isn't fair but it's at best a 'break even' settlement between the two groups who are forced to live with each other. I was specifically addressing Options and Flex integrating, but if I'm in favor of percentage for us, why would I not be in favor of it with XO?

Unlike options pilots I don't favor a staple job. Doh would be just that except for maybe ~30 pilots at flex. It will affect who gets furloughed, upgraded, downgraded, moved to different fleets...it would screw a larger portion of pilots at flex. Option pilots have to share the pain as well.
 

Frac Cap

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I am not going to get pulled into a selfish self-serving debate as to what puts me ahead of my fellow pilot based on which system of integration we use. If you actually looked at the real numbers in regards to at what point flex starts loosing ground from date of hire as to percentage, you wouldn't make a grossly false statement as to only 30 of your guys would benefit from a system based on date of hire.

Putting my cards on the table, I actually would benefit in a percentage system instead of a DOH system. I only wanted to bring to light that if you are short sighted now and only look at what put you in the best position on this merger, you may not like what you are going to get if you set a precedence with percentage and more mergers happen in the future.

I will no longer debate this subject because it will only serve to divide us at this point and time and we need to come together.
 

slowtation capt

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Unlike options pilots I don't favor a staple job.

If you are hearing from Options pilots for a staple job then you are talking to the few. Everybody wants fair and equitable, the biggest concern is that nobody from either company loses, nobody wants a repeat of the Options/RTA.
 

el raton

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If you are hearing from Options pilots for a staple job then you are talking to the few. Everybody wants fair and equitable, the biggest concern is that nobody from either company loses, nobody wants a repeat of the Options/RTA.

DOH is basically a staple job.
 

doh

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Nope. Most FO pilots were hired before a majority of Flex pilots. Flex pilots are going to take it in the shorts when we integrate.

That was always going to be the case.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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So in the end is it going to be the pilots with the help of the IBT or will it be Uncle that decides the integration? We had pilot "advisory" committees in the past that had absolutely no input. I don't want a repeat. Do you?
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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Nope. Most FO pilots were hired before a majority of Flex pilots. Flex pilots are going to take it in the shorts when we integrate.
Even though the Flex pilots are not members of the 1108, the negotiating committee is trying to protect them in the fence agreement.
 
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