• This site moved from forums.flightinfo.com to flightinfo.com. Please update your bookmarks.

Why we are victims of the oil industry

DH106

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Posts
185
Total Time
5000
Having lost two mainline-flying jobs due to mismanagement and oil prices, it's infuriating to see oil priced as it is.

Exxon Mobil's 2nd quarter profit was a whopping 7.64 billion dollars! And, the other oil companies were just as busy laughing all the way to the bank, as they held all consumers and companies by the you-know-whats.

The bottom line is that we are being scammed, by oil-producing nations (with OPEC at the top of the list) and the oil companies. When it costs an OPEC nation around $1.50 to produce a barrel of oil, and they sell it for the current price of around $65 per barrel, that's pure greed -- especially considering that it just wasn't too long ago that oil was priced at $17 per barrel.

I got fed up and wondered why the oil industry does to us what it does. I recently read a book, Over A Barrel: Breaking The Middle East Oil Cartel, by Raymond Learsy. It explains everything about the oil scam that we're forced to pay for every day. It describes, in great detail, the gross extent to which the oil-producing nations and the oil companies are in collusion to break us of our pocketbooks.

I greatly urge all other pilots to read this book, to get an education on what's really going on. I have no ties to the publisher, so I'm just recommending it as a mere reader. But, please, go out and get a copy and read it (it's not a Bush-bashing book, as it's written by a conservative and former Reagan appointee). It will change your outlook on what's going on in this nation.
 

Mr Hat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Posts
483
Total Time
6500
I ain't no dang hippy but when my lease is up, I am getting a new Honda civic hybrid. If everyone switched to cars that had low consumption, that would drive prices down. It would take some time but I am tired of giving my money to greedy gougers. Wanna stick em, lower consumption.

I drive an S2000 now...not really bad on consumption but it could be better.
 

Indy319FA

Starving Regional Pilot
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Posts
434
Total Time
2000+
Probably the biggest factor in all this are the mergers in the oil industry that began under Clinton and have continued under Bush. Just about all of the smaller oil companies have been bought out by larger companies, and many of those large companies have merged as well. Many of these mergers have been disguised as "joint ventures". What has essentially happened is they have divided up the country so that no matter which company pumps your gas, it all comes from the same refiner. This consolidation began as a reaction to all the money the oil industry lost in the 80s and 90s. It will be interesting to see if there is some kind of action to break up these companies and create more competition.

Not to say OPEC is not a huge factor, it is. But oil industry consolidation is a big factor as well.
 

whymeworry?

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2005
Posts
701
Total Time
12000+
Our current plight is a function of two things:

1) A completely clueless president (clueless about the attack on the common mans pocketbook by big oil) and an equally inept congress. Their job is to preserve the good of our country and lead. They have let the oil companies take advantage of the entire nation. Expect a revolution if prices don't come down.... AND STAY DOWN.

2) Wall Street. Every analyst on Wall Street predicted crude prices to retreat when it hit $30, $40, and $50 per barrell. Our airline managements gave into this advice and waited for that price retreat before buying fuel hedges. Well, as we all know, the prices never retreated, hence fuel hedging was never put in place. It wasn't until oil hit $50 that analysts then changed their tune and called for prices to remain high indefinitely. At $50 per barrel price levels, oil would have to go above $75/ barrell to support fuel hedge contracts bought at $50 due to the high purchase price of those contracts. I hope those who decided not to hedge at $20, $30, $40 per barrel were held accountable and got fired. Then again, they are management. When is airline management ever held accountable?
 

klhoard

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Posts
766
Total Time
32000+
Mr Hat said:
I ain't no dang hippy but when my lease is up, I am getting a new Honda civic hybrid. If everyone switched to cars that had low consumption, that would drive prices down. It would take some time but I am tired of giving my money to greedy gougers. Wanna stick em, lower consumption.

I drive an S2000 now...not really bad on consumption but it could be better.
.
.
.
I know that sounds good, but I don't believe that lowering consumption does anything for the long term. If consumption rate per person goes down, all they need to do is lower the supply to meet the new lower rate; thus keeping us sucking on the oil nipple for many, many more years.
.
.
.
I think that the best cure is to let prices skyrocket - yes, I said skyrocket. That will FINALLY force the American consumer to demand a switch over to different fuels. Has anyone noticed that the latest Ford commercials are touting that their new cars will run on Ethanol? I can guarantee that this would never had happened if gas wasn't $3.00 per gallon. . .
.
.
.
You can pass all of the energy bills you want to in Congress, but NOTHING will happen until you affect each and every American. That can only be done at the gas pump. . .
.
.
.
 

DonVerita

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
575
Total Time
10000+
WhymeWorry is on target.

Bush and Cheney are 100% bought and paid for by Big Oil and King Coal. They don't care about you, your family, your job, the air you breathe or the water you drink. Poll numbers are plummeting and indictments are flying.

This country is finally starting to come out of it's post 9/11 hypnotic trance.
 

logolight

Air Wisconsin
Joined
Feb 8, 2003
Posts
237
Total Time
10000
Mr Hat said:
I ain't no dang hippy but when my lease is up, I am getting a new Honda civic hybrid. If everyone switched to cars that had low consumption, that would drive prices down. It would take some time but I am tired of giving my money to greedy gougers. Wanna stick em, lower consumption.

I drive an S2000 now...not really bad on consumption but it could be better.
If consumption goes down, they'll raise the prices to make up for the loss in consumption.
 

Mr Hat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Posts
483
Total Time
6500
I know that sounds good, but I don't believe that lowering consumption does anything for the long term. If consumption rate per person goes down, all they need to do is lower the supply to meet the new lower rate; thus keeping us sucking on the oil nipple for many, many more years.
Your probably right. But at least I won't be filling up all the time driving to EWR. My drive is 40 miles, the new Civic gets 50 miles to the gal on the highway and it's only $20,000. I don't know about increased maintaince costs yet as I haven't really researched the car but the battery has some rediculous warrenty on it.

I am really going to sound like a liberal hippy when I mention this but have you heard of Willy Nelsons vegitable fuel that he uses to run his tour van. Apparently it will run flawlessly in any diesel engine...made from corn oil. Talk about a way to get America's farmers out of debt. The only problem I can see is that if another midwestern drought hits, it would hurt more than summer BBQ's.

We do need to find other fuel sources though. Additional drilling is a bandaid that could only work if we were working on a perminent solution in the way of alternative fuels.
 

klhoard

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Posts
766
Total Time
32000+
.
.
.
Mr. Hat - USA Today did an analysis of the hybrids and the two issues that stood out were the fact that the advertised EPA mileage on the sticker wasn't even close to what people were getting in actual driving. That seemed to be due to the fact that the EPA allows the manufacturer to really "stack the deck" in their favor during proving runs. The other factor was the hybrid premium of $5000-$8000 you pay up front doesn't make up for the higher gas mileage over the expected five year life of the vehicle.
.
.
.
Now, the one established technology they talked about was the diesel powered VW Golf TDI. 43 Miles per gallon, consistenly proven over many years of ownership.
.
.
.
Yes, I have looked into bio-diesel - basically cooking oil mixed with methanol. Currently it is $2.71 per gallon vs. $3.19 per gallon for regular diesel fuel. 100% biodiesel has a solvent effect that cleans out the entire fuel system and has a higher "lubricity" that makes you diesel engine last up to three times longer. However, I would have to drive about an hour just to fill up with bio-diesel, so the only reason I'm not using it today is simply availability.
.
.
.
So there you have it. . . my simple argument to leave gasoline (and diesel) prices sky-high along with higher consumption . . . .
.
.
.
 

landlover

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Posts
1,365
Total Time
5000+
Implementation of the Hydrogen fuel cell sounds like the best idea if you ask me. Read an article recently , Iceland claims to have a full H2 eonomy by 2010 or there abouts. I will do further research on H2, most of the details escape me at the moment.
 

LearLove

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
4,451
Total Time
12000+
DonVerita said:
WhymeWorry is on target.

Bush and Cheney are 100% bought and paid for by Big Oil and King Coal. They don't care about you, your family, your job, the air you breathe or the water you drink. Poll numbers are plummeting and indictments are flying.

This country is finally starting to come out of it's post 9/11 hypnotic trance.
Bingo, ding, ding, ding - we have a winner.
 

Dangerkitty

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2004
Posts
1,353
Total Time
8700
Mr Hat said:
Your probably right. But at least I won't be filling up all the time driving to EWR. My drive is 40 miles, the new Civic gets 50 miles to the gal on the highway and it's only $20,000. I don't know about increased maintaince costs yet as I haven't really researched the car but the battery has some rediculous warrenty on it.

I am really going to sound like a liberal hippy when I mention this but have you heard of Willy Nelsons vegitable fuel that he uses to run his tour van. Apparently it will run flawlessly in any diesel engine...made from corn oil. Talk about a way to get America's farmers out of debt. The only problem I can see is that if another midwestern drought hits, it would hurt more than summer BBQ's.

We do need to find other fuel sources though. Additional drilling is a bandaid that could only work if we were working on a perminent solution in the way of alternative fuels.
www.greasecar.com
 

Dangerkitty

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2004
Posts
1,353
Total Time
8700
DonVerita said:
Bush and Cheney are 100% bought and paid for by Big Oil and King Coal.
I am much more concerned how Bush and Cheney are 100% bought and paid for by Big Dairy, Big Meat, and Big Cheese.
 

wheelsup

Non-Registered User
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Posts
737
Total Time
>1
klhoard said:
.
.
.
I know that sounds good, but I don't believe that lowering consumption does anything for the long term.
.
I think that the best cure is to let prices skyrocket - y
.
I agree, to a point. However, if we, as a country, can lower consumption enough so that the oil produced here in the US stays in the US, and there is no more importing of oil, atleast we would be off of the oil life-line from the middle east and south america.

This, however, would probably take every commuter in the country to drive purely electric cars, leaving the oil for the trucks, trains, and planes in the US. I'm not even sure the US produces enough oil to cover that - I haven't looked at any numbers.

I saw there was an electric Prism sold on ebay a while back - it went 15 miles on one charge and cost $0.80 (in electricity) to charge it. Not bad if you worked within 5 miles or so of your home.
 

Gulfstream 200

Database Expert
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Posts
4,574
Total Time
18,550
DH106 said:
Having lost two mainline-flying jobs due to mismanagement and oil prices, it's infuriating to see oil priced as it is.

Exxon Mobil's 2nd quarter profit was a whopping 7.64 billion dollars! And, the other oil companies were just as busy laughing all the way to the bank, as they held all consumers and companies by the you-know-whats.

The bottom line is that we are being scammed, by oil-producing nations (with OPEC at the top of the list) and the oil companies. When it costs an OPEC nation around $1.50 to produce a barrel of oil, and they sell it for the current price of around $65 per barrel, that's pure greed -- especially considering that it just wasn't too long ago that oil was priced at $17 per barrel.

I got fed up and wondered why the oil industry does to us what it does. I recently read a book, Over A Barrel: Breaking The Middle East Oil Cartel, by Raymond Learsy. It explains everything about the oil scam that we're forced to pay for every day. It describes, in great detail, the gross extent to which the oil-producing nations and the oil companies are in collusion to break us of our pocketbooks.

I greatly urge all other pilots to read this book, to get an education on what's really going on. I have no ties to the publisher, so I'm just recommending it as a mere reader. But, please, go out and get a copy and read it (it's not a Bush-bashing book, as it's written by a conservative and former Reagan appointee). It will change your outlook on what's going on in this nation.

wake up.

Many other nations have had gas cost $5 a gallon for years. No, they dont drive Suburbans and Hummers to the mall to "look at $hit"

As far as the airlines failing, let em' fail - (sorry if that hits close to you) Its about time.

How come other industries who live/die on oil prices and airplanes (fedex,UPS) are thriving right now?? -- because unlike the airlines they actually have a business plan. shocker. they pass on the costs. people pay still...wow, what a revalation.

Americas economy is moving along just fine, even with the HUGE increase in the price of oil.

Blame Bush all you want, I think he is a complete idiot also....but thinking gas being expensive (and killiing your airline career in the process) is GWBs fault is --well-- ...pretty stupid.
 
Last edited:

DonVerita

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
575
Total Time
10000+
Dangerkitty said:
I am much more concerned how Bush and Cheney are 100% bought and paid for by Big Dairy, Big Meat, and Big Cheese.
Cats usually are.
 

MercuryPilot

Go NAVY! Beat Army!
Joined
Nov 17, 2002
Posts
117
Total Time
7000+
Thank your local environmentalist

I think Neal Boortz said it best today:

Companies like Exxon/Mobil, Shell, BP and others explore and extract a barrel of oil out of the ground...we'll say they spend $15 doing this. But oil is now going for $70 a barrel on the open world market. So what are the big oil companies to do? Sell it to people at a discount, just because politicians say so? Nope...they are beholden to their shareholders to make as much profit as possible...so they sell it on the world market, where demand from countries like India and China are driving up the prices. Too many dollars chasing too few barrels of oil.

So what should be done? The answer is to drive up the supply, which will lower the price. Time to send the rigs to Alaska, off the shores of the United States and anywhere else we can drill for crude. There is plenty of oil in the ground....the problem is the leftist environmentalist moonbats won't let people drill for it.

The next step is to start pulling permits for oil refineries...the places where oil is turned into gasoline. There hasn't been a new one built in 30 years, thanks to the environmentalists. New refineries could also refine some of the cheaper, rougher crude...which would also bring down prices. But nobody wants a refinery in their back yard, right? Too bad.

We'll hear a lot about conservation, electric cars, and other alternative fuel sources. That's all well and good....and advances in technology do need to be pursued to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels, but the bottom line is this. For the foreseeable future, cars need gasoline, trucks need diesel fuel, homes need heating oil and airplanes need jet fuel.

In the meantime, if we do nothing, the price of oil will continue to stay high, the oil companies will get richer and politicians will start talking about things like price controls, which never work and result in shortages.
 

AvroJockey

Go Pack Go!
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Posts
432
Total Time
35 yrs
Where's the evidence?

by DonVerita said:
WhymeWorry is on target.

Bush and Cheney are 100% bought and paid for by Big Oil and King Coal. They don't care about you, your family, your job, the air you breathe or the water you drink. Poll numbers are plummeting and indictments are flying.

This country is finally starting to come out of it's post 9/11 hypnotic trance.
Post something on this board that proves that this administration owes its allegiance to corporate prospectors of black gold! It very disheartening when someone regurgitates the unfounded claims of a fascist group, including the media, out of ignorance. If you believe there might be validity to these assertions, do some research and reference your evidence, instead of spouting off as if you suffered from tourettes!

It's no wonder why Americans are considered unintelligent relative to the citizens of other developed nations. We watch the corporate profit driven sensationalization of the American media, and think we're experts on any given subject. Green Day wrote a song about this form of stupidity, and you (DonVerita) are the poster child for the next American Idiot tour.

Let me ask you this, If American oil companies and Bush are colluding against the consumer, why hasn't any branch of local, state, or federal government brought antitrust charges against said companies? Uh....maybe because there's no anti-competative practices or cartels among US oil companies! I'm not saying that Bush lacks special interests; ALL POLITICIANS HAVE THEM! It's just absurd that some think that the President is conspiring behind everyones back in interest of those parties, and nobody but the Republican party knows about it. GET REAL PEOPLE! Are you making this up so you feel better about yourself?

So why is the price of oil so high? Oil is a commodity, because oil is oil. Therefore, the price of oil is not set by the US producer, the US producer just accepts the price set by the "market," and it just so happens that the price, and therefore profits, are really high for these companies. The reason I say "market" is because, on a global scale, the market is OPEC, a CARTEL of 11 oil producing nations. OPEC sets the equilibrium price of oil by adjusting the supply, it's really this simple. The only way a producer of a commodity can demand a higher price for it's product, without a change in demand for the product, is to form a cartel with other producers to control the supply. This is exactly what OPEC is, and neither President Bush, or any other branch of US government, have control over OPEC. It just so happens that US producers of oil are also beneficiaries of the OPEC cartel, and they will continue to pump out as much oil as physically possible to retain those profits.

Some suggest that US oil companies are holding back supply in order to fix the price. They don't have to, OPEC does this for them, because these nations constitute the world's largest oil producer. The the price is already fixed by someone the US government has no control over! If I was a US oil company, with oil at $50, $60, $70+ a barrel, I too would be pumping out as much oil as possible, to maximize profit. They have a fiduciary responsibility to the stakeholder, including their employees.

There is a demand side of the equilibrium price equation, as some have already suggested. When the consumers of oil, the majority of which reside in the USA, (BTW, the US is the largest consumer of resources in the world, by a vast margin.) demands more, the equilibrium price of oil goes up. Since most Americans, including myself, what bigger a better things, such as SUVs, the demand for resources goes up. As the demand for SUVs grew throughout the last decade, so too has the demand for oil. Americans want their large SUVs at 10 MPG, and want to fill it cheaply too. I'm sorry, in time, you can't have both.

BTW, it's interesting the opponents of the current administration allege that the current Iraq war is just about oil. 'Blood for Oil' I've seen placarding the protests of the opposition. At the same time they think Bush is wrapping his policy around US oil companies and their record profits. This is totally ludicrous! Are liberals really gullible enough to by into this extremist thinking? These positions logically and economically contradict one another. If Bush invaded Iraq in an attempt to diffuse the power of OPEC, and succeeded, the price of oil would drop to pennies on the dollar. Therefore, US oil companies would lack today's profits and possibly loose money. Believe it or not, US oil companies can loose money, it happened in the 80's, even to George W. Bush's oil company Arbusto (later named Bush Exploration).

Well, you say, Bush's US oil special interests could then control the supply of oil, lacking the OPEC cartel. This would never happen in today's market system, because consumer advocates on all US private and public levels would not stand for it, and antitrust lawsuits would ensue.

In short, quit your bitching, quit begging for so-called entitlements, control your own destiny, and drive a Yugo!
 
Last edited:

runwayjockey

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2005
Posts
152
Total Time
+6000
Post something on this board that proves that this administration owes its allegiance to corporate prospectors of black gold!

Lawmakers Urge Gas Drilling in Fla.
By H. JOSEF HEBERT
Associated Press Writer

"energy Secretary Samuel Bodman, appearing with Norton at the Senate hearing, said the White House is considering a package of energy proposals the administration plans to present to Congress soon, including possibly requiring an emergency reserve of gasoline and other refined products.
Bodman also said he was aware of no administration plans to propose a fee on oil companies to help pay for low-income energy assistance programs. Demand for such government help is expected to soar this winter. The oil industry launched an intense lobbying effort recently to head off such a fee proposal after learning it was being discussed in Congress and among some people within the administration."

Let me ask you this, If American oil companies and Bush are colluding against the consumer, why hasn't any branch of local, state, or federal government brought antitrust charges against said companies?

By JANIS L. MAGIN
Associated Press Writer
HONOLULU (AP) -- The nation's attorneys general are asking the Federal Trade Commission to investigate "possible unlawful conduct by the petroleum industry and others" in causing record high fuel prices, Hawaii Attorney General Mark Bennett said Wednesday.
Bennett and Oregon Attorney General Hardy Myers, co-chairmen of the National Association of Attorneys General Antitrust Committee, said they were concerned about the soaring costs of oil and gasoline following hurricanes Katrina and Rita.
"We stand ready to assist you to investigate possible unlawful conduct by the petroleum industry and others that could be contributing to the increased cost of fuel," the men wrote Wednesday in a letter to FTC Chairman Deborah Platt Majoras.
More than 45 states are already investigating the cause of the escalating fuel costs since late August, when Katrina slammed into the Gulf Coast, according to the letter. They noted that the average price nationally for regular unleaded gas was above $3 a gallon, and said the cost of home heating oil would likely rise as temperatures begin to drop across the mainland.
Although the FTC does not have jurisdiction to prosecute cases of criminal violations of federal antitrust laws, it can refer those cases to agencies that do, Bennett said.
Meanwhile, Senate minority leader Harry Reid on Wednesday challenged congressional Republicans to hold hearings to investigate rising fuel costs, saying oil companies are reaping large profits while raising prices at the pump.
"The money is going to these big oil companies, and we want to know why they're making the money they are and we want to see their books," Reid, D-Nev., said at a Las Vegas news conference to promote energy legislation by Democrats.
Last month, attorneys general from a number of states held a telephone strategy session to discuss the rapidly escalating fuel prices and possible investigations into gouging. Prosecution for price gouging is generally a state matter unless it involves some form of collusion or other activity in violation of federal antitrust laws.


In short, quit your bitching, quit begging for so-called entitlements, control your own destiny, and drive a Yugo!
Last time I checked Avros were still running on JetA. You may still be able to fill up your suv and not give a rats ass about anyone else less fortunate, but in case you have not noticed the whole damm airline industry has been turned upside down because of soaring fuel costs! I'm not saying it's all Bush's fault, the Dems are just as guilty! There is something wrong here when the Rich get Richer and the airlines get poorer!

You know its a crisis when I can't even justify making the drive from Waukesha to Lambeau with these fuel prices.
 
Top