"Why Pilots Should Make $200,000 aYear" essay thing

[pilotyip]

If you like flying airplanes for a job and it is something you have wanted to do your whole life and you understand the limitations of the job, it is a great job! Time away from home, nights in hotels, jobs ending suddenly, this is all part of the job. A 100K for living a child hood dream is something very few people will ever experience in their lives. If you think you should be compared to a doctor or MBA from Harvard, you are out of touch with reality. Fly because you like to.

 

[Fugawe]

Yeah, I remember it very well, and what I remember was that it really wasn't very hard. I also remember getting professional registration in a completely unrelated field. I remember that just to sit for the final registration exam (there was more than one) required a minimum of 4 years of college with a degree in that discipline and 6 years of practice in this field. I remmeber that the exam took 8 hours. I remember that it was a lot harder than my PPL, IR, CPL, FI, FOI, ATP and FE exams all put together. I also remember that you could not buy a book with all the questions and all the answers to that exam.

Becoming a pilot really isn't all that hard.

Guess some tickets are different than others. Becoming just 'a pilot' may not be that hard.

 

[Tyro]

Fly because you like to...

No question that:

1. Piloting an airplane is complex. Machines assist but do not/cannot substitute for the experienced aviator (thinking judgment in particular),

2. Professional pilots are vastly underpaid/under-appreciated,

3. Due to forces distressing not only aviation but every facet of the social order.

Inevitably these get into a “how much is it worth” discussion:
- How hard is flying
- Compared to (profession here) and what “they” make.
Or: how to counter the global forces and correct this state.
Or: who is to blame for the current state.

None of these have any clear solution. Get lot of tail chasing, churn.

Yip’s philosophy is the only way out of this dilemma.

 

[FN FAL]

Oh, yeah!! That'll will win them all over...

What you talkin bout Willis? I was making people into hair, bones and teeth, long before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye.

Good post A Squared.

 

[$$$4nothin]

I remember being all iced up at night and not being able to do anything but descend with mountains below me. At that exact moment I remember wishing I was doing anything else in the world other than that. Once you experiance a feeling like that you take a different view about this industry. I wonder how bad the pay will have to get for people to say screw it. However I still flew the next night. So what does that say. Who knows.

 

[pilotyip]

$$$ they are already saying "screw it" on the lower end, look at the steps Pinncacle, Commuate Air, etc are going through to fill their cockpits. Redefining competitive minimums (i.e. Lowering Minimums), hiring bonuses, rooms while in training. They having trouble finding piltos who will do the job. Everyone who has been around long enought has a story like yours with the ice or TRW's or something. But, if they like to fly they keep coming back.

 

[BenderGonzales]

I still wanna know who'se getting this $100,000 per year you keep talking about!?

 

[ReverseSensing]

I'm pretty convinced that compensation is not, strictly speaking, a supply and demand issue. Too many examples of well-compensated professions where there's no shortage of supply: lawyers, stockbrokers, professional athletes, etc.

I'm further convinced that the "fly because you love it" attitude is somewhat responsible for the erosion in pilot pay, but only in combination with declining airline profitability and the breed of management that lumps pilot costs in with the cost of paperclips and file folders.

Nothing wrong with loving to fly, but couldn't we just keep it our little secret from management? The worth of a pilot can and will be debated, but lately, collectively, we seem to be showing up to the battle of the wits unarmed.

 

[Ralgha]

Guess some tickets are different than others. Becoming just 'a pilot' may not be that hard.

I didn't find any of the tickets to be hard. Time consuming in some cases, but not hard.

 

[Bumpman]

I don't begrudge anyone a salary commensurate with their experience or seniority, as long as the company/airline that they fly for is financially capable of paying that salary. It is my humble opinion that the reason we have seen so many airline bankruptcies & failures is due to the greed expressed by ALPA. Duane Woerth and Co. just want your pay rates to go up so that your ALPA dues will increase, and therefore increase their ALPA bureaucratic salaries. Since deregulation, the industry has not been able to keep up with the pay scales that were established some 30 years ago. Since deregulation, airlines have charged smaller fares and pilots have demanded higher salaries, in keeping with the demands that ALPA has placed on the carriers. I have been a military pilot, corporate pilot, and for the last 17 years, an airline pilot. I do this job because of my love for flying, not because I want to get rich at it. That ain't gonna happen. You young guys that think you are gonna get rich in this industry had better wake up and smell the coffee. This is a wonderful job with some pretty decent benefits. I get to fly a nice jet airplane from point A to point B with no boss hanging over my shoulder yelling in my ear. I am compensated pretty well for what I do, and I appreciate that. Rich-NO, Happy-YES, VERY.

 

[A Squared]

Too many examples of well-compensated professions where there's no shortage of supply: lawyers, stockbrokers, professional athletes, etc.

No, there is a shortage of supply. Ball players attorneys and stockbrokers are not widgets, there's a quality issue.

There may be a bazillion young punks who want to play basketball for a living, however there are d@mned few who are actually able to play as well as Michael Jordan. So the very few who are actually able to run with the big dogs pull down a big paycheck. That is supply and demand in it's most basic form.

Basketball players who can play at that level are one comodity, and it is in short supply.

Basketball players who *can't* play at that level are a completely different commodity.. There is *not* a shortage of supply of that commodity. SUbsequently, basketball players who aren't NBA quality do not make big bucks, you see them playing for peanuts in semi-pro leagues, either hoping it will lead to getting recruited to a higher level or just doing it because they like it. In either case they don't make the same amount of money as michael jordan because they are a different commodity, one that is not in short supply.

Again, supply and demand in it's most basic form.

Attorneys and stockbrokers are subject to the exact same laws of supply and demand, although the fields don't lend themselves easily to a very simple analysis like basketball. One of the differences which seperate those people into different commodities is quality (or perceived quality) of education. Sure there are plenty of MBAs, but a guy with an MBA from the local community college is a very different commodity than someone with an MBA from Wharton. Ditto Attorneys. If you are running a high dollar prestigious law firm who caters to the very wealthy and large prominient business (and bills accordingly), you don't care that there's thousands of guys with a law degree from a local college. You want to hire lawyers with degrees from prestigious law schools, and those are in a much shorter supply, so the price goes up.

Supply and demand. You can't get away from it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

A squared- your supply and demand sounds fair...

How does that apply to organized labor at airlines. There are no Micheal Jordon's when flying airplanes. Either you are qualified and have the right attitude andpersonality to get hired or you don't.

There are no Derek Jeters that can command more pay for the same work as other short stops....

 

[Occam's Razor]

It is my humble opinion that the reason we have seen so many airline bankruptcies & failures is due to the greed expressed by ALPA.

Are you serious? ALPA is causing airlines to fail? You don't think it has anything to do with:

• the price of jet fuel
• competition spurned by manfacturers giving away aircraft to start-up airlines. (Airbus v. Boeing, Pratt v. GE v. Rolls)
• government buffoonery
• economic moodswings (Wanna kill an airline? Start a war!)
• inept managemnt dinks

What you're telling us is that pilots (in the form of ALPA) has asked too much from our poor managements. This has resulted in bankruptcy.

Am I reading that correctly?

The pilots at American (APA), Southwest (SWAPA), and other non-ALPA carriers have been smart enough not to demand more money, better work rules, and nicer benefits over that period?

Um....I ain't buyin' it.

Since deregulation, the industry has not been able to keep up with the pay scales that were established some 30 years ago.

Ok. Who "established" those rates 30-years ago? Was it..."satan"? Were those rates just plucked out of the ether, or were they a function of the realtive health of the industry and it's status in the economy? Have airline executives increased their own compensation packages in the past 30-years? Or is it just the pilots...excuse me....just ALPA pilots...oops!...just Duane Woerth?

Since deregulation, airlines have charged smaller fares and pilots have demanded higher salaries, in keeping with the demands that ALPA has placed on the carriers.

ALPA is stupid for demanding better pay for pilots?

Got it!

Perhaps we should index our pay to the fares our managements choose to charge?

SWA guys would looooooove that! Ditto JetBlue.

 

[XShipRider]

Two words...

Jet Blue (LA?)

Air France (Toronto)

United Airlines (Sioux City, IA)

Take your pick. I think you're grossly underpaid.

I like having a knowledgeable aircrew. It makes me feel like I have a chance
if anything catastrophic happens.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't begrudge anyone a salary commensurate with their experience or seniority, as long as the company/airline that they fly for is financially capable of paying that salary. It is my humble opinion that the reason we have seen so many airline bankruptcies & failures is due to the greed expressed by ALPA. Duane Woerth and Co. just want your pay rates to go up so that your ALPA dues will increase, and therefore increase their ALPA bureaucratic salaries. Since deregulation, the industry has not been able to keep up with the pay scales that were established some 30 years ago. Since deregulation, airlines have charged smaller fares and pilots have demanded higher salaries, in keeping with the demands that ALPA has placed on the carriers. I have been a military pilot, corporate pilot, and for the last 17 years, an airline pilot. I do this job because of my love for flying, not because I want to get rich at it. That ain't gonna happen. You young guys that think you are gonna get rich in this industry had better wake up and smell the coffee. This is a wonderful job with some pretty decent benefits. I get to fly a nice jet airplane from point A to point B with no boss hanging over my shoulder yelling in my ear. I am compensated pretty well for what I do, and I appreciate that. Rich-NO, Happy-YES, VERY.
Happy to be a member of ALPA-NO; but it is required if I want to stay employed; 5 more years for sure, my health staying good, 10 more years if Congress approves it.

If you don't expect TOO MUCH, then what you get will be great.

Please submit a short essay on Labor when applying to our companies Union Busting, er, I mean Labor Relations position.

Oh look you just did.....!

Of course we expect you to love the job, therefore don't expect much pay....

What many ALPA pilots don't know (becuase they don't take the time to learn) is that ALPA has an Economic and Financial Analysis Dept. It is second to none and many in house unions buy the EF&A services. For example the APA and SWAPA.

When a company wants paycuts from pilots, ALPA insists that the company hand over its books. Now, thru the EF&A, your pilot group can objectively understand your companies financial position. Now your negotiating committee can negotiate armed with real data, not doom and gloom form managment who don't care if you are on food stamps. The same applies when pilots are negotiating pay increases....

Kinda debunks your whole theory of....

It is my humble opinion that the reason we have seen so many airline bankruptcies & failures is due to the greed expressed by ALPA. Duane Woerth and Co. just want your pay rates to go up so that your ALPA dues will increase, and therefore increase their ALPA bureaucratic salaries.

I wouldn't even say it is humble.....rather ignorant actually. Please don't get me wrong. I am not saying you are ignorant..just misinformed. Or mis-believed