"Why Pilots Should Make $200,000 aYear" essay thing

[30West]

In my years as a flight instructor and later sim instructor/check airman I did learn one thing. Not "everyone" is cut out to fly airplanes. Fewer still are cut out to be airline pilots. But that is not limited to just aviation. Personally I'm not smart enough to design software or be a Wall Street wiz. I could learn to do it, but I'd never be able to reach the professional levels of either trade. As a flight instructor, I flew with many folks who were at the top of their respective positions- Doctors, Successful business owners, lawyers, etc. But once airborne had absolutely no aptitude or natural ability. Obviously folks like this aren't stupid or they wouldn't be where they are.
As a simulator instructor, I have seen many folks wash out who are otherwise good pilots, just not cut out for airline flying. Doesn't mean they are not good pilots.
That being said, I will never apologize for what I make as a pilot. I have worked hard for the last 18 years since I took my first flying lesson honing and practicing and doing all I could do to get where I am now. Not a single opportunity or flight hour was handed to me on a silver platter. I happen to take pride in my profession and would never prostitute myself for the sake of one more hour in my logbook.
A quick show of hands- How many here think Al Haynes shouldn't have been paid his salary?
To all the non aviation professional folks who might be on this board- Instead of wondering why pilots get paid too much, why not ask yourself why you aren't getting paid what you are worth? I'll go out on a limb here and guess other high paying professions aren't busting their asses for years to get where they are, only to have to constantly justify themselves to everyone?
Why is it that doctors are allowed to be paid high salaries so they can afford to pay off the costs of their education, yet as pilots we're just expected to suck it up and just be "happy we're flying". Pilots have bills and mortgages just like everyone else.
BTW no I don't make 200k a year and never will in an airplane, but I do feel I am paid what I am worth and make no apologies.

 

[redd]

A Squared. well said, and fitly put.

 

[pilotyip]

30 West, again the pilots you are about do not have the adequate level of skill to become a pilot, but anyone with a certain level of skill and desire can fly an airplane safely and professionally. The cost of becoming a pilot is way less than that of becoming a Doctor. You do not need to go to college and spend 100K to get your ratings. Just guessing 5K Pvt., 20K Comm, mel, inst. 3K CFI, under 30K you have all the ratings you need to start a flying career. Listen to A squared, he seems to have it all figured out.

 

[PCL_128]

It is still a great job at $100K per year

Arrggggggggg!!! You have got to stop saying that! $100K ain't what it used to be, my friend. The top air line pilot salaries are about 1/4 what they were in 1977 when corrected for inflation. That is truly abysmal, and we deserve much better. How about $90k a year? Is that "still a great job," pilotyip? How 'bout $70k? Maybe even $50k? Where do you draw the line about how much it takes to be a "great job?" Here's a thought: stop apologizing for the lowering of the bar, and let's work on moving it back to where it belongs.

 

[cjs]

Big fcking deal. How much should firefighters make? $300k? Or cops? How about $400k? Bus drivers should make around $100k because one wrong move and boom everyone in back is dead. While we're at it, parachute packers should make $500k. Get the point? Whoever writes this crap must have an ego the size of Rhode Island. Flying aircraft is just another job, and your market value is based on two things: supply and demand. Anything else is just bleary-eyed bellyaching. Waaah, I don't get paid enough. Then fck off and get another job, people are waiting in line for yours.

 

[gkrangers]

Then fck off and get another job, people are waiting in line for yours.

And they are willing to take it no matter the compensation. sad.

 

[A Squared]

That is truly abysmal, and we deserve much better.

It always gets down to that, doesn't it? I *deserve*. It is always astonishing the staggering sense of entitlement that so many pilots have. (and ironically, they are often the same folks complaining bout others' sense of entitlement)

No, what you deserve is what you can convince someone to pay you, and that, like it or not, is driven to a large degree by supply and demand.

 

[gkrangers]

It always gets down to that, doesn't it? I *deserve*. It is always astonishing the staggering sense of entitlement that so many pilots have. (and ironically, they are often the same folks complaining bout others' sense of entitlement)

No, what you deserve is what you can convince someone to pay you, and that, like it or not, is driven to a large degree by supply and demand.

obviously we SUCK at convincing.

 

[A Squared]

obviously we SUCK at convincing.

That may be, and I can assure you that the author of the "why pilots should make $200K" essay isn't convincing anyone with his inaccurate and arrogant rant.

 

[PastFastMover]

Then fck off and get another job, people are waiting in line for yours.

Exactly what line of work specifically are you employed in cjs?

 

[pilotyip]

If you like flying airplanes for a job and it is something you have wanted to do your whole life and you understand the limitations of the job, it is a great job! Time away from home, nights in hotels, jobs ending suddenly, this is all part of the job. A 100K for living a child hood dream is something very few people will ever experience in their lives. If you think you should be compared to a doctor or MBA from Harvard, you are out of touch with reality. Fly because you like to.

 

[Fugawe]

Yeah, I remember it very well, and what I remember was that it really wasn't very hard. I also remember getting professional registration in a completely unrelated field. I remember that just to sit for the final registration exam (there was more than one) required a minimum of 4 years of college with a degree in that discipline and 6 years of practice in this field. I remmeber that the exam took 8 hours. I remember that it was a lot harder than my PPL, IR, CPL, FI, FOI, ATP and FE exams all put together. I also remember that you could not buy a book with all the questions and all the answers to that exam.

Becoming a pilot really isn't all that hard.

Guess some tickets are different than others. Becoming just 'a pilot' may not be that hard.

 

[Tyro]

Fly because you like to...

No question that:

1. Piloting an airplane is complex. Machines assist but do not/cannot substitute for the experienced aviator (thinking judgment in particular),

2. Professional pilots are vastly underpaid/under-appreciated,

3. Due to forces distressing not only aviation but every facet of the social order.

Inevitably these get into a “how much is it worth” discussion:
- How hard is flying
- Compared to (profession here) and what “they” make.
Or: how to counter the global forces and correct this state.
Or: who is to blame for the current state.

None of these have any clear solution. Get lot of tail chasing, churn.

Yip’s philosophy is the only way out of this dilemma.

 

[FN FAL]

Oh, yeah!! That'll will win them all over...

What you talkin bout Willis? I was making people into hair, bones and teeth, long before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye.

Good post A Squared.

 

[$$$4nothin]

I remember being all iced up at night and not being able to do anything but descend with mountains below me. At that exact moment I remember wishing I was doing anything else in the world other than that. Once you experiance a feeling like that you take a different view about this industry. I wonder how bad the pay will have to get for people to say screw it. However I still flew the next night. So what does that say. Who knows.

 

[pilotyip]

$$$ they are already saying "screw it" on the lower end, look at the steps Pinncacle, Commuate Air, etc are going through to fill their cockpits. Redefining competitive minimums (i.e. Lowering Minimums), hiring bonuses, rooms while in training. They having trouble finding piltos who will do the job. Everyone who has been around long enought has a story like yours with the ice or TRW's or something. But, if they like to fly they keep coming back.

 

[BenderGonzales]

I still wanna know who'se getting this $100,000 per year you keep talking about!?

 

[ReverseSensing]

I'm pretty convinced that compensation is not, strictly speaking, a supply and demand issue. Too many examples of well-compensated professions where there's no shortage of supply: lawyers, stockbrokers, professional athletes, etc.

I'm further convinced that the "fly because you love it" attitude is somewhat responsible for the erosion in pilot pay, but only in combination with declining airline profitability and the breed of management that lumps pilot costs in with the cost of paperclips and file folders.

Nothing wrong with loving to fly, but couldn't we just keep it our little secret from management? The worth of a pilot can and will be debated, but lately, collectively, we seem to be showing up to the battle of the wits unarmed.

 

[Ralgha]

Guess some tickets are different than others. Becoming just 'a pilot' may not be that hard.

I didn't find any of the tickets to be hard. Time consuming in some cases, but not hard.

 

[Bumpman]

I don't begrudge anyone a salary commensurate with their experience or seniority, as long as the company/airline that they fly for is financially capable of paying that salary. It is my humble opinion that the reason we have seen so many airline bankruptcies & failures is due to the greed expressed by ALPA. Duane Woerth and Co. just want your pay rates to go up so that your ALPA dues will increase, and therefore increase their ALPA bureaucratic salaries. Since deregulation, the industry has not been able to keep up with the pay scales that were established some 30 years ago. Since deregulation, airlines have charged smaller fares and pilots have demanded higher salaries, in keeping with the demands that ALPA has placed on the carriers. I have been a military pilot, corporate pilot, and for the last 17 years, an airline pilot. I do this job because of my love for flying, not because I want to get rich at it. That ain't gonna happen. You young guys that think you are gonna get rich in this industry had better wake up and smell the coffee. This is a wonderful job with some pretty decent benefits. I get to fly a nice jet airplane from point A to point B with no boss hanging over my shoulder yelling in my ear. I am compensated pretty well for what I do, and I appreciate that. Rich-NO, Happy-YES, VERY.