Why people go to ERAU or UND?

[DC8 Flyer]

Oh cool so you acutally get to learn to fly the plane in the air? Man I've been missin' out

HAHA! Very funny!

And, 40 hours to solo! Oh dear gawd, those are the ones that drove me to drink, well drink even more anyway.!

This is only my opinion.

I think 50 hours is way too much for Private Pilot training. Not bashing those who take more time to do it, just saying UND/ERAU shouldn't be held out as big shiny expensive schools because people don't buckle down and do the work necessary to get through the courses. I realize it sometimes takes more for some to "get it" but 10 hours more as an AVERAGE is a lot considering the number of students that get through in 40 or 42 hours.

Just to put in perspective.

http://www.tradewind-aviation.com/tai/private_pilot.cfm

This is a flight school, part 61, near where I live. 30K for everything through MEI in a C172 and a PA44. No college degree, no job instructing afterwards and you have to finance it yourself.

 

[Almerick07]

I got my private from a decent FBO in Dallas in just over 2 weeks 35 hours on the nose....9 hours to solo, man that was a blistering pace. As far as school goes if I could do it all over again I would have gotten my CFI's from that nice little FBO and gone to community college for the first 2 years (off set some of those flight training loans) and then gone to a local DFW college/university to finish off my degree while instructing.

Now what I did varies a fuzz; went to college for 1 year before realizing I wanted to be a pilot. I transfered to a near by, but out of state university that had an aviation program. I am paying a little more but I do get in state tuition and get the beloved college experience. I am currently about to earn my teaching ticket and instruct for the remainder of college (1 1/2 years) until I graduate. I hope to graduate meeting 135 mins.

 

[viper548]

This is not a flame bait.. I am just trtying to understand why people would go to a very expensive university, get under a lot of debt and then end up CFI'ing no matter what..

I am a flight school owner and recently I had a conversation with a guy who was going to ERAU. I told him that it will cost him many more $$$$ to get his license.. He said he liked the structured environment of a university. When I told him that our program is not too bad and it will cost him half the money if he came to us, he just basically shrugged it off.

Is it the image, or just the promisses of guranteed interviews at the low times ?
What is it that makes you go to these schools?

Thanks..

People think ERAU is the 'ivy league' of aviation

 

[mcjohn]

Where does UND have a satellite operation in North Carolina?

 

[DC8 Flyer]

Where does UND have a satellite operation in North Carolina?

Just started this past spring of this summer I believe.

http://www.bestaviation.net/news1.asp?ID=51

 

[gkrangers]

I don't know how you can say 50 hours is too much.

50 hours is probably a better number than the bare minimum of 40...the extra experience may be worthwhile to a lot of people.

I finished at 40-42.

 

[Pugh]

The thing is I really don't mind where people got their flying experience from...what matters is the individual and how they come out of that experience. Whether you went to a Mom and Pop 61 or UND, if you turn out to be arrogant, rude and generally a poor pilot you will get no repspect either way. A blanket statement like "Man I hate those UND/ERAU guys" IMO is ignorant. One of the most important things about choosing a college/flight school is finding one which fits you the best.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

I don't know how you can say 50 hours is too much.

50 hours is probably a better number than the bare minimum of 40...the extra experience may be worthwhile to a lot of people.

I finished at 40-42.

You're misunderstanding what Im saying, and I didnt say it very well. Im saying in a place like UND or ERAU there really is no reason to go over 40 hours to get your private, there are simply too many resources available, easily and readily available, that most 61 schools just cant afford to have. With all those tools at the students disposal the MAJORITY that go well over the course mins are the ones that just don't care and mom and pop are footing the bill. This drives the course averages up and gives UND the label of being a high priced school when in reality it is fairly close to the same price as doing your training at most other places. But since UND has a shred of business ethics they publish average course times and not minimum course times (thus costs) to present a more realistic picture.

Now does going over course mins make you a slacker, of course not, its an individual student thing. From my 2+ years of instructing there and doing all stage checks through CFII progs, and CFI progs, the majority that came for a check with minimum time where the sharp ones, ie prepared, where as the majority with 10+ hours of "extra" time were the weaker ones.

One concept I hope you can get out of your mind before long is the "more time = more experience and thus a better pilot" attitude. Its the quality of instruction and what the student does with that instruction that determines their performance, not how many times they practice steep turns only to be 200 feet off every time because they have no idea what is happening to lift and drag while in the turn.

I guess what I am saying is, UND is no more high priced than your average FBO as far as per hour training costs go. Of course you will spend more with tuition, (especially out of state), room and board, books, simulator time, etc. But in the long run I think the trainng you get and the resources you have at your disposal at UND is worth it.

ps
For you ERAU guys that come up during the summer for competitions, how hard is it to find Truck Stop, its the only parking lot on the south side of town with 800 big rigs parked in it!

 

[Bjammin]

I don't believe I would be with Cathay Pacific if it were not for the knowlege gained at Embry Riddle. Just little things like understanding systems, aerodynamics, or weather a little better then the next guy got me through the interview. Having an answer to a obscure question or having just a little more situational awareness beacuse of my degree proves to be invaluable on a daily basis. Was it expensive, absolutly, but I think taking four years of classes in my EXACT career field truly helped my path end up in such an awesome place. Can you be a great pilot without a 4 year degree in aeronautics, of course, I meet them everyday, but for me personally I would not change a thing.

 

[mar]

Erau '86-'90

I graduated ERAU in 1990 out of the management program.

I took flight lessons in So. Cal. during the summer.

I chose ERAU Prescott because:

1) It was close to home (LA).
2) Far enough away from home.
3) The student/teacher ratio was about 15:1
4) At the time (late '80s) it wasn't anymore expensive than any other private college.

Is it more expensive to fly there? Yes. That's why I took lessons at home.

All said, I think I received a pretty good undergraduate education. The people in the Humanities Dept made a conscious effort to balance the highly technical and focused nature of the core curriculum in order to produce a well rounded product.

If you're just looking for flights lessons, well yeah, that's dumb. But if you're looking for an education then you'll find one...if you want it.

And that's the problem. A lot of people approach ERAU as some sort of glorified trade school.

Different strokes for different folks.
Good luck.

 

[CaravanMan]

no ofeense to the good erau people, but at every NIFA meet we would try to go shoot the $hit with them guys and they would look down their nose at us. like they are god gift to aviation or something. too bad we produced this years top pilot at nationals

You read my mind.

However, when I was still in school and going to the meets, those Riddle guys from AZ hit the line nearly everytime in that 150 of theirs. I always wondered if they wore their E6Bs in the shower with them... They always had them with them, lol.

 

[Bjammin]

Trade school? Somewhat, but I quess so is any Med or business school. I got my B.S. in aeronautics. If I wanted to be a Doctor I would have persued an M.D., a lawer maybe Harvard Law. I wanted to learn the most I could about my future profession that's why I chose ERAU.
I do agree that for some reason ERAU guys tend to be stuck up and egotistical. We could all speculate why, but many fine schools have the same problem. I myself will always be a student of aviation. The first person that thinks they know it all is the first person not to have a clue. I think aviation is filled with outstanding professionals from all backgrounds, degree or not, military or not, airlines or not. As you said to each his own. Bottom line, be competant and safe, the rest will take care of itself.

I graduated ERAU in 1990 out of the management program.

I took flight lessons in So. Cal. during the summer.

I chose ERAU Prescott because:

1) It was close to home (LA).
2) Far enough away from home.
3) The student/teacher ratio was about 15:1
4) At the time (late '80s) it wasn't anymore expensive than any other private college.

Is it more expensive to fly there? Yes. That's why I took lessons at home.

All said, I think I received a pretty good undergraduate education. The people in the Humanities Dept made a conscious effort to balance the highly technical and focused nature of the core curriculum in order to produce a well rounded product.

If you're just looking for flights lessons, well yeah, that's dumb. But if you're looking for an education then you'll find one...if you want it.

And that's the problem. A lot of people approach ERAU as some sort of glorified trade school.

Different strokes for different folks.
Good luck.

 

[Donsa320]

After reading all these replys and comments I must add my thoughts.
First my background.
I have been in this business since 1951. I've had an instrument rating since 1953. My structured flying was in the USAF. That was 278 hours in Aviation Cadets, the Korean War was on. After 8 years in the USAF I separated and got an airline job...in DC-3's. I was lucky, no one was hiring. Three mergers later I retired at age 60. That is a long story cut short. <grin>

My observation is that good pilots come from all the routes...and so do bad ones.
Trying to determine which is which from job applications, resume's, cover letters and letters of recommendation is hit or miss.
The interview process is flawed too, but does help.
Training records probably are the most reliable. We seldom consider anybody with a record of failures. One failure, maybe, is not fatal, but a string of them is an obvious problem. Repeating a checkride for, say, your instrument rating when you were a wee pup would not be as bad as failing an upgrade at a previous employer.
I do know that some of out fleet managers read Flightinfo. Lucky that it is anonymous, some of the stuff here would really be like licking the third rail, deadly.
I am frequently shocked by the crude language and innuendo frequently displayed here. Some is bravado, I'm sure, but the underlying tone is all to frequently not very flattering toward the profession. I realize that the profession is under stress right now. People handle stress differently. If you do not like it, please find some other profession before you hurt somebody.

Our DO recently remarked that the new classes will be handled differently in that the first year IS probationary and if we do not like what we see there will be discharges before the 1st year is over. He is tired of keeping problem people and havng those problems for 30 years.

Thanks for listening <grin>

~DC

 

[Icelandair]

The nice thing about UND is that the male/female ratio is also about 50:50 since you have the nursing and teaching college on campus to balance things out.

 

[McNugent]

The nice thing about UND is that the male/female ratio is also about 50:50 since you have the nursing and teaching college on campus to balance things out.

Amen to that. I was surprised when I showed up freshman year to find the women weren't that bad lookin either. Must be the Norwegian thing. And you know what there is to do when its -40 out? Use your imagination...

GO SIOUX!

 

[gkrangers]

Yeah...theres a big hospital right next door to Riddle...a nursing program sounds like a good idea...