Why MESA?

[CX880]

I just got done talking with a friend of mine at Mesa and what he told me was downright horrible. From what I heard pilots there are basically slaves, forced to work and be demeaned. My question is why do so many put up with it? Has Mesa always been this bad? What are the chances for a better contract? I really feel bad for those that are actually trying to get in, hopefully they know what they're getting into. Even pilots that live on base have a hard time.

 

[XPOO]

Flame bait! Hold on. I want to be the first to say it this time. MESA SUCKS!

 

[WalterSobchak]

But what about those SWEET signing bonuses?

 

[Soverytired]

I just got done talking with a friend of mine at Mesa and what he told me was downright horrible. From what I heard pilots there are basically slaves, forced to work and be demeaned. My question is why do so many put up with it? Has Mesa always been this bad? What are the chances for a better contract? I really feel bad for those that are actually trying to get in, hopefully they know what they're getting into. Even pilots that live on base have a hard time.

Many don't. Many are leaving as fast as they can, even if it's a lateral move.

Mesa has not always been this bad. Until 2 years ago, I would have considered Mesa an acceptable career fall-back position for the long haul. They have systematically SQUEEZED, bent, or broken everything in our contract, and it's now a miserable place to work. They did this in the face of record profits!

Even the actual flying isn't any fun . .. .I mean really, who looks forward to night after night of "flip flop flying"; sometimes day work, then showing at 1800-0700 and flying four legs with a 3 hour nap on the floor of the plane? It's contrary to every NASA fatigue study and NTSB safety recommendation.

Yet the company will tell you with a straight face that flying a shift between 1800-0700 and 0700-2000 is exactly the same, and that sleep from 2200-0600 is exactly as restful as forcing oneself to sleep from 0900-1700.

It's dangerous, demoralizing, unhealthy, and just a matter of time before Mesa has an "incident" like Comair. But you can't sue Mesa . . .it's FAR legal, right? Oh, it's the pilots fault for not calling in fatigued. Sue the pilot (if he survives the flaming wreckage).

Contract: give it at least 3 years, and the advantage is very much in the company's favor. With all the guys leaving, the ALPA leadership is constantly changing. Our excellent MEC chairman just bailed, so we're rudderless, again.

Mesa views pilots as easily replaceable cogs in the machine. You are not valued, you are overpaid*, and you certainly whine too much about only getting 8 days off a month. To paraphrase one of our V.P.'s . . . we only get the weekend off, why should the pilots get more?

AVOID. AVOID. AVOID. AVOID.






* Yes, overpaid. The company is currently conducting a roadshow wherein they "prove" Mesa pilots are paid far more than industry average.

 

[rickair7777]

I agree with SVT, two years ago it wasn't that bad as far as the way you were treated. The contract and work rules sucked, but back then it was reasonable to assume that it would be corrected in 2007...now I just don't know.

 

[paid4training]

I unsed to work with the now head of scheduling there. I never thought he would have turned that place into the place it is now. I am shocked.

 

[CFIse]

I just got done talking with a friend of mine at Mesa and what he told me was downright horrible. From what I heard pilots there are basically slaves, forced to work and be demeaned. My question is why do so many put up with it? Has Mesa always been this bad? What are the chances for a better contract? I really feel bad for those that are actually trying to get in, hopefully they know what they're getting into. Even pilots that live on base have a hard time.

And yet your "friend" is there. I do wonder why people with all these horror stories from people they know who supposedly flying at Mesa don't stop and ask themselves WHY these people are still there if it's so terrible?

"Forced to work and demeaned" - really - what does that mean? I have never been "forced to work" - I get assigned a schedule and I fly it - if that's what you mean, but I think you'll find that's typical at all airlines. I've never been demeaned - I'm not treated like a Sky God - but I've got news for you - pilots are just cogs in the machine, and if you are expecting Sky God status you're not going to like it at any US carrier these days.

 

[mdanno808]

Have you ever been JA'd?

 

[bingsatre]

mesa

my life has gotten better since mesa! it's what you make of it, and how much you let the system beat you down! sure, i maybe shuda waited till sky west called, but they didnt!

Bing

 

[Soverytired]

All of CFIse posts may be summarized thusly:

1. "All regionals are equal. There is no difference in Q.O.L. or pay for any of them."

(Demonstrably and patently untrue. It is an outrageous lie. In his latest post, he implies ALL U.S. carriers are just like Mesa! This is actually funny, because apparently, he expects you to believe it!)

2. "If you don't like Mesa, quit."

(Excellent advice, and Mesa pilots are doing their best to follow it . . roughly 12% of the total pilots this year alone. "Get your time and get out" doesn't cut it under Mesa's current work rules)

3. "Why don't you come to Mesa? It's great!"

(sigh)

And yet your "friend" is there. I do wonder why people with all these horror stories from people they know who supposedly flying at Mesa don't stop and ask themselves WHY these people are still there if it's so terrible?

"Forced to work and demeaned" - really - what does that mean? I have never been "forced to work" - I get assigned a schedule and I fly it - if that's what you mean, but I think you'll find that's typical at all airlines. I've never been demeaned - I'm not treated like a Sky God - but I've got news for you - pilots are just cogs in the machine, and if you are expecting Sky God status you're not going to like it at any US carrier these days.

 

[Flyer1015]

For those of you who are curious, here's how to get your hands on the Mesa pilot contract (CBA):

Take the most convoluted dictionary you can find. Throw it on the floor. Have your dog take a sh*t on it. Then, set it on fire, and immediately spill milk on top of it.

That right there is your very own copy of the Mesa pilot contract (CBA).

 

[RP170]

my life has gotten better since mesa! it's what you make of it, and how much you let the system beat you down! sure, i maybe shuda waited till sky west called, but they didnt!

Bing

And with a post like that I can see why Skywest never called. The guys at Mesa that are currently accepting jobs there are 1) uneducated about the industry or 2) at Mesa because as Bing stated no one else thought they were worthy of offering a job to.

 

[cale42]

Unnecessary cheap shot there RP170. There are a lot of people that chose Mesa for specific reasons.. the bases, the fast upgrades on the prop, the chance to not sit reserve.

I'll be the first to admit the work rules there are terrible.. I got JA'ed 4 of 5 days this week.. I may very well leave, and soon. However I never sat a day of reserve, I logged 400 hour turbine in 5 months, and I could upgrade to captain on the 1900 right now if I so chose, or I can go to my choice of other regionals.

People have their reasons.. it is not fair to characterize all the new hires as uneducated or unworthy of other regionals.

cale

 

[Palerider957]

Unnecessary cheap shot there RP170. There are a lot of people that chose Mesa for specific reasons.. the bases, the fast upgrades on the prop, the chance to not sit reserve.

I'll be the first to admit the work rules there are terrible.. I got JA'ed 4 of 5 days this week.. I may very well leave, and soon. However I never sat a day of reserve, I logged 400 hour turbine in 5 months, and I could upgrade to captain on the 1900 right now if I so chose, or I can go to my choice of other regionals.

People have their reasons.. it is not fair to characterize all the new hires as uneducated or unworthy of other regionals.

cale

Pathetic sucker........

 

[Palerider957]

Unnecessary cheap shot there RP170. There are a lot of people that chose Mesa for specific reasons.. the bases, the fast upgrades on the prop, the chance to not sit reserve.

I'll be the first to admit the work rules there are terrible.. I got JA'ed 4 of 5 days this week.. I may very well leave, and soon. However I never sat a day of reserve, I logged 400 hour turbine in 5 months, and I could upgrade to captain on the 1900 right now if I so chose, or I can go to my choice of other regionals.

People have their reasons.. it is not fair to characterize all the new hires as uneducated or unworthy of other regionals.

cale

You are obviously: Not married.
Do not have a family
Do not have a mortgage
MESA is your first job out of college

You probably: Live in your parents basement
Have never had a leadership position

As long as there is an unlimited supply of pilot like you, the regionals will always be a sweat shop.

 

[bingsatre]

mr goo-roo

And with a post like that I can see why Skywest never called. The guys at Mesa that are currently accepting jobs there are 1) uneducated about the industry or 2) at Mesa because as Bing stated no one else thought they were worthy of offering a job to.

Well aren’t you a friendly fellow!

I didn’t say Mesa rocked! Mr. E170, It takes a big person to criticize my education after a short post about my experience at Mesa. ….I just left out all the bad parts.

O and they did call, but at that point it wouldn’t have worked for me.

We all know Mesa needs to change! Thanks for pointing that you airline industry goo-roo.

Bing

 

[cale42]

Try again Pale Rider...

I'm 27.. engaged.. and aviation is a second career for me. Before this I was an IT consultant and when I left that job I was a team leader with several people who reported directly too me. It's been 10 years since I've lived with my parents.. and with an understanding fiancee I make ends meet even as I slug through the regional FO ranks.

I also happen to understand how the world really works. Going to Mesa is a stepping stone for me, I logged my 1000 TT flight instructing and paid my dues. Given that I will be living in Denver I opted to focus on a few specific regionals, in my case Mesa, Skywest, and Horizon. As a green instructor I didn't get an interview with Horizon and for whatever reason after my SKW interview I was not offered a position. I opted to take a job with Mesa rather than begin the whole interviewing process again, and as a result I have gained some hugely valuable experience. I have also learned a lot about being a 121 pilot and very well may leave soon. However the fact that after 6 months in the 121 world I have an opportunity to upgrade and get some very valuable PIC time makes it a difficult decision.

If you would like to explain to me how going to another regional that is more unstable and I would have had a longer commute benefits me personally I will be interested to hear. Or should I have continued to flight instruct for another 6 months and hope SKW or RAH would like me better with 1500 dual given instead of 700? Since you apparently know everything about me I'm curious to hear what I should have done with my life.

Don't presume to know things you don't, and don't presume to understand why people make the decisions they do..

cale

 

[Palerider957]

Try again Pale Rider...

I'm 27.. engaged.. and aviation is a second career for me. Before this I was an IT consultant and when I left that job I was a team leader with several people who reported directly too me. It's been 10 years since I've lived with my parents.. and with an understanding fiancee I make ends meet even as I slug through the regional FO ranks.

I also happen to understand how the world really works. Going to Mesa is a stepping stone for me, I logged my 1000 TT flight instructing and paid my dues. Given that I will be living in Denver I opted to focus on a few specific regionals, in my case Mesa, Skywest, and Horizon. As a green instructor I didn't get an interview with Horizon and for whatever reason after my SKW interview I was not offered a position. I opted to take a job with Mesa rather than begin the whole interviewing process again, and as a result I have gained some hugely valuable experience. I have also learned a lot about being a 121 pilot and very well may leave soon. However the fact that after 6 months in the 121 world I have an opportunity to upgrade and get some very valuable PIC time makes it a difficult decision.

If you would like to explain to me how going to another regional that is more unstable and I would have had a longer commute benefits me personally I will be interested to hear. Or should I have continued to flight instruct for another 6 months and hope SKW or RAH would like me better with 1500 dual given instead of 700? Since you apparently know everything about me I'm curious to hear what I should have done with my life.

Don't presume to know things you don't, and don't presume to understand why people make the decisions they do..

cale

Listen brother, Mesa is a toxin that is working it's way through the U.S. pilot corp. Mesa is like a leech that will eventually kill the host.

JO does not like you.
JO does not respect you.
JO does not respect FAR's.
JO does not respect your contract.
JO knows that he can manipulate, punish, abuse, humilitate, sodomize, this pilot group whenever he feels like it; and the Mesa pilot group will take all of it.

Having said all of that, can you blame JO for abusing you??

P.S. Being engaged is a looooooonnnnng way from being married. Take it from an old married man.

 

[Flyer1015]

You forgot one:





<----------- JO is a clown!

 

[cale42]

Pale Rider.. I agree with you on all those points.. I'm just saying people have their reasons.. there are a lot of good pilots at Mesa.. I didn't appreciate the post that insinuated we were either uneducated or unworthy or other regionals, or that I was some brand new know nothing FO, when I work hard to not be that.

after my last post I noticed your signature line.. anyone that knows what thats from should understand the concept of doing what it takes

cale