Why is NetJets TA Unfair?

[FAcFriend]

ok, NJW I am trying to follow your logic thanks for following mine.

Computer Cos Laid off programmers, causing glut in market, driving everyone's salary down. I thought that was happening with pilots, supply and demand. Too many pilots, too few jobs.

A computer programmer that made 150K at World Com gets paid 50K at Net Jet. Should he be paid 150 because that is what he used to make? Because others may make that at another company? Or should he be paid 50k because there are three other people who can do the job and want the job for 50k?

If 1000 pilots took the job for 29k over the past four years, there must be something they liked, pay, benefits, location, the secretary
How does supply and demand of pilots fit in here?

I have other comments and quesitons but dont want to take up too much space. Thanks
Bet your kids were cute for Halloween.

 

[LR45JI]

The important thing is that we could have the $25,000 signing bonus and the pay raise in our pockets while we negotiate the new TA. The fact is that we don't.

Your obviouselly senior if you were getting the 25K, maiking up less than 10% of the seniority list.

The important thing is that the horriable language (CVR, A & B Scale pay per RCA) were not accepted and are now "Off the table".

 

[El Chupacabra]

A $310 Million loss in the SEC filing. Any more false claims out there.

"The decline in revenues at NetJets was due to a reduction of revenues from sales of aircraft of $514 million partially offset by increased flight services and other revenues of about $204 million"

Revenues from FLIGHT SERVICES (thats us) INCREASED!

 

[njwingman]

If you don't want to believe the SEC filings, go back and watch Boisture's DVD. In it he indicates that NetJets' net profits have been running the 5% range, which is not up to Berkshire's desires, but profits nonetheless, not losses. Straight from the honcho's mouth.

 

[Live4flyng]

Hey Ding Dong

[QUOTE
Good, glad to see you found it. Your post was being edited faster than I could read it. The important thing is that we could have the $25,000 signing bonus and the pay raise in our pockets while we negotiate the new TA. The fact is that we don't.[/QUOTE]

If you are so concerned about the health and profitability of Netjets, volunteer to work for free. None of us (82%) would mind while we fight for a descent contract. As El Chupacabra pointed out using your numbers, the company would still show a loss if everyone worked for free. NJA pilots are the lowest paid of all of NETJETS, INCs. subsidiaries. I don't hear you jumping up and down about that. For Chrite Pete, have a little self worth for once. Ask our CEO and President if they are willing to take a pay cut to subsidize our failing company. You have alot to learn about business, thank GOD guys like you aren't in leadership positions!

 

[netjetwife]

My 2 bits worth--ladies first...

FAcFriend, the 1000 pilots that took the job in the last 4 years had been upgrading quickly to PIC, so while not paid what they should be, still weren't making 28K very long. Getting stuck on FO pay is something that happened in the last 2 yrs or so. Yes there is something they like--the type of flying they do--constant change, more responsibility for decisions, etc. And don't forget that the contract had been under negotiation already for the majority of those hired during that time. Who'd ever have thought that it'd take 3 yrs to get a TA!! The new hires were told by other pilots that they'd get an "industry leading contract" and heard repeated promises of "kick-ass" pay. Just because the last MEC failed miserably doesn't mean that fair pay isn't possible. It just means that the pilots need to have leadership that truly cares about them and their families and is willing to work hard for them (more about that later). As far as your computer programer analogy goes, I respectfully suggest that it's far too broad to be useful. In all skilled labor there are levels of talent and experience that come into play. With the face-to-face interaction between the pilots and wealthy/famous owners seen at NJA, it's also reasonable to assume that people skills are a consideration as well. Being a good pilot is not a guarantee of having diplomacy and a welcoming attitude. Others before you, have mentioned an over supply of pilots, but NJ is known for hiring only the best; if they lower their standards that reputation could surely suffer. Furthermore, pilots have been refusing the job because the pay is too low and the (now defeated )TA was bad. My husband's F16 friend is now in training at AirTran for better pay. We are seeing another rule of economics at play here: Companies that are unwilling to pay for the level of skill/experience they desire must either lower their standards or raise wages. Don't you think the owners will complain if they are given beer after paying for champaign? With accidents recently in the news, I believe safety/experience will continue to be a high priority for them.

Texasasskicker, I'd bet that many NJ pilots do have a backup plan, but they like the job and think their cause is worth fighting for. As I've tried to point out before, balance is an important goal. My husband, and other NJ pilots, enjoy the flying and px interaction. They want to have a contract that allows them to stay at a job they like. That said, thanks for your show of support! It helps.

Kingtut, what "reality" is your low opinion ("they will go from hero to A-hole...") of the SU leaders based on? My high opinion of them is based on my own personal exchanges with some of them, my husbands' teleconferences w/all of them, and evidence of their strong determination, to help the pilots, which we have seen already. When you add to those facts, the REALITY that we have had FAR MORE communication from SU in the past 3 months than we had from the last MEC in 3 years, it makes your opinion appear harsh and hasty, not to mention, unfounded.

NJAFrac pilot--where do I begin?? Obviously your use of "WE" could have had a $25K signing bonus applies to a small minority. My husband was only offered $5K (after 21 months w/NJ) and that is the same that a brand new hire would have received. How is that fair?? You only mentioned pay (clearly yours is far higher than others) but the TA was terribly flawed in all areas. The yes voters were agreeing to a list of regressions that 82 % deemed unacceptable. Additionally, the weak scope clause would have placed many jobs at risk. Apparently--not yours. It seems to me, you fail to recognize that the basic premise of a union is to get the most possible for the most members. One would think that if the FO/FOs can hang on for a better contract, while making less than $30K a year, then surely your family can as well. Do we think the MEC turned stupid over night? LOL...don't ask! Seriously, I think they were in over their heads but were too arrogant to admit it. SU, on the other hand, is more than willing to obtain the service of experts and make use of the talent/experience offered by other pilots. NJW

 

[El Chupacabra]

Live, I think you have NJWingman confused with someone else

 

[Live4flyng]

Live, I think you have NJWingman confused with someone else

Thanks, I edited it. Quoted the wrong person.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

The 310 million dollar NetJet loss ...

If you can't tell the difference between a decline in revenue and a loss ...

 

[NJAFracPilot]

If you can't tell the difference between a decline in revenue and a loss ...

Okay, I screwed the pooch reading the MD&A on the 10k, there was a decline of revenue of 310 million and a loss of only 9 million. But the point is, I have an investment of time in this company and look at it as a career, not a stop on the way to somewhere else. I want equitable pay for us, but I also want the company to be around to pay us. We could get paid and still work toward improving our next contract had we accepted the TA.

We'll just have to see what SU has to say after they've been shown the secret handshake and hope that it doesn't take too long to get another TA on the table.