Why is NetJets TA Unfair?

[kingtut]

gunfyter, thanks for the response. Eloquent as always.

I've been around the patch a few times in 55 years of life and I have seen some really stupid stuff and not just in aviation. Fact is, there ain't no tellin' what the company clowns will put forth as a reasonable offer.

Guess the real question is, what is the forecast wait for another pass at a TA / Contract?

On a philosophical note, "It is easier to be the hero than the administrator." We will see just how long those of the SU running for MEC remain heros. In reality, I think they will go from hero to A-hole in zero point nothing seconds.

 

[Texasskicker]

Former lurker posting his 2 bits worth

Im all for the fight y'all are wagin' for your wages.

Can't help but say this. If you are unhappy with your job, what yer being paid for what you do, and the job conditions... why not look elsewhere in the industry for a better job?

Airjobs digest has a bunch of jobs posted for corporate pilots, and I gar-own-darn-tee you they pay WAY better than what the FO's are makin' right now at Net jets.

Why not lift yourself up and look out there to see what alternatives are available?

I know y'all have already thought of this and are prolly holdin' on to get a better package. But think of all the lost earnings that go by for every day you don't have that better payin job.

Anyway, good luck in your "war on terrible pay."

 

[gunfyter]

Tut,

If the company wants a new contract to pass... it won't be worse than the one that just failed by 82% to 17%. If they offer less we know they are not interested in a new CBA... and they are happy with what we have now.

 

[NJAFracPilot]

How do you know how much money the company lost? Mr Bill says we didn't lose money.

The 310 million dollar NetJet loss is in the current Berkshire Hathaway Securities and Exchange Commision filing. Anyway, every day that goes by, we're losing money. It would have made a He!! of a lot more sense to take the TA and the money and start working on a new TA. We're in the same position right now - working on a new TA - except we didn't get the raise and the signing bonus.

 

[kingtut]

gunfyter, you are certainly correct, "they [sic:Company] are happy with what we have now." The company has not been and will not be in a hurry to change anything that is currently in force. Fact is, everyday spent under the current contract is good from the point of view of the company clowns. There are some things the company will change just because they can will out pilot group approval: Standby For Heavy Rolls. (Man, do I love that nautical talk stuff.)

As I said, time will tell.

 

[El Chupacabra]

$310 million? We know that money was not lost paying Pilots.

If we all worked for FREE (as in a salary of ZERO) that means losses still would have been nearly $200 million.

If there is a problem it has nothing to do with pilot pay.

 

[LR45JI]

The 310 million dollar NetJet loss is in the current Berkshire Hathaway Securities and Exchange Commision filing. Anyway, every day that goes by, we're losing money. It would have made a He!! of a lot more sense to take the TA and the money and start working on a new TA. We're in the same position right now - working on a new TA - except we didn't get the raise and the signing bonus.

Please show me where in the SEC filling you see a $310 Million loss in the latest SEC filling.

I will make it easy for you....this is from the BH 10Q SEC filling:

Revenues from aircraft sales and flight operations in 2004 increased $97 million (21.0%) for the second quarter and $279 million (32.0%) for the first six months.

Pre-tax earnings of the flight services segment for the first half of 2004 totaled $66 million compared to pre-tax earnings of $25 million for the first half of 2003. For the first half of 2004, pre-tax earnings from training activities as well as aircraft sales and flight operations increased over the first half of 2003. Pre-tax earnings from training increased $23 million for the first half of 2004 over 2003 due to the aforementioned revenue increases and from relatively small increases in certain fixed operating costs, including salaries and depreciation. The pre-tax results of the aircraft sales and flight operations business improved by about $18 million during the first half of 2004. The improvement was primarily due to an increase in aircraft sales and an increase in the volume and efficiency of flight operations.​

Please show me where it says what you are claiming. I enjoy being proven wrong as I learn something from it - PLEASE prove me wrong; I will even give you the link to the SEC http://www.sec.gov​

 

[NJAFracPilot]

Please show me where in the SEC filling you see a $310 Million loss in the latest SEC filling.

I will make it easy for you....this is from the BH 10Q SEC filling...

Please show me where it says what you are claiming. I enjoy being proven wrong as I learn something from it - PLEASE prove me wrong; I will even give you the link to the SEC http://www.sec.gov​

Sure, go to the same site or to Hoover or Edgar-Online and look at Berskshire Hathaway's last 10K filling.

 

[LR45JI]

Here ya go, straight from the BH 10K, page 28, ending 12-31-03 which is the latest 10K.

Flight services

This segment includes FlightSafety, a leading provider of high technology training to operators of aircraft and ships and NetJets, the world’s leading provider of fractional ownership programs for general aviation aircraft. FlightSafety’s worldwide clients include corporations, regional airlines, the military and government agencies. The decline in revenues was split between FlightSafety (about $96 million) and NetJets (about $310 million). A decline in FlightSafety training revenues accounted for most of that businesses revenue decline. The decline in training revenues was due to a decline in regional airline training somewhat offset by increased U.S. Government training revenues. The decline in revenues at NetJets was due to a reduction of revenues from sales of aircraft of $514 million partially offset by increased flight services and other revenues of about $204 million. Pre-tax earnings from these businesses was $72 million in 2003 as compared to $225 million in 2002. The results for 2002 include a gain of $60 million from the sale of a partnership interest to Boeing and the results for 2003 include the recognition of pre-tax charges of $69 million related to write downs of certain simulators and aircraft inventory. Excluding the aforementioned gain and write downs, “normal earnings” from these businesses were $141 million in 2003 versus $165 million in 2002. The reduction in combined “normal” pre-tax earnings from these businesses is due to reduced “normal” pre-tax earnings at FlightSafety of $34 million somewhat offset by improved results at NetJets where its pre-tax loss before write downs was $9 million in 2003 versus about $19 million in 2002. The corporate aviation business has slowed significantly in the past few years which has hurt FlightSafety’s results. NetJets continues to be the leader in the fractional ownership field.​

I will let someone else educate you on the difference between Revenue vs. P/L. ​

 

[NJAFracPilot]

Good, glad to see you found it. Your post was being edited faster than I could read it.

The important thing is that we could have the $25,000 signing bonus and the pay raise in our pockets while we negotiate the new TA. The fact is that we don't.