Why is NetJets TA Unfair?

[SkyGirl]

I asked a couple of times how NetJets pay would compare to that of the other fractional providers if the TA was approved. No one answered, but someone did PM me the addy for Airlinepilot.com. The answer is, "About the same as Flight Options, Flex Jet and Citation Shares."

So next I wondered why these NetJet guys thought they should be paid more than other pilots doing the same job. Is it because NetJets is more profitable then the other fractionals?

So I went to the SEC, something we here in DC well know how to do. The following is from Berkshire Hathaway's most recent 10k filing:


"Flight services

This segment includes FlightSafety, a leading provider of high technology training to operators of aircraft and ships and NetJets, the world’s leading provider of fractional ownership programs for general aviation aircraft. FlightSafety’s worldwide clients include corporations, regional airlines, the military and government agencies. The decline in revenues was split between FlightSafety (about $96 million) and NetJets (about $310 million). A decline in FlightSafety training revenues accounted for most of that businesses revenue decline. The decline in training revenues was due to a decline in regional airline training somewhat offset by increased U.S. Government training revenues. The decline in revenues at NetJets was due to a reduction of revenues from sales of aircraft of $514 million partially offset by increased flight services and other revenues of about $204 million. Pre-tax earnings from these businesses was $72 million in 2003 as compared to $225 million in 2002. The results for 2002 include a gain of $60 million from the sale of a partnership interest to Boeing and the results for 2003 include the recognition of pre-tax charges of $69 million related to write downs of certain simulators and aircraft inventory. Excluding the aforementioned gain and write downs, “normal earnings” from these businesses were $141 million in 2003 versus $165 million in 2002. The reduction in combined “normal” pre-tax earnings from these businesses is due to reduced “normal” pre-tax earnings at FlightSafety of $34million somewhat offset by improved results at NetJets where its pre-tax loss before write downs was $9 million in 2003 versus about $19 million in 2002. The corporate aviation business has slowed significantly in the past few years which has hurt FlightSafety’s results. NetJets continues to be the leader in the fractional ownership field."


I looked at the most recent 10q as well and it supports the above quoted statement from BH's legal mouthpiece, Deloitte and Thouche.

So I guess NetJets isn't wildly profitable either, just bigger.

It doesn't seem right to compare NetJet pay to corporate pilot's salaries because that's not what you do. Your job seems more like charter operations than corporate, but that's not quite right either. It would seem that the most appropriate way to determine if your pay is fair would be to compare it to others that do exactly what you do, the other fractionals.

So why should you guys get paid more than they do?

-SkyGirl-
(anybody know where I can get a flame retartdant suit? )

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Why should you guys make more money??????


Yeah honey, god forbid a pilot wants to make a decent wage when there are so many who will do it for less....

dammm those greedy pilots.

Hope you have a decent job now honey, cuz the future aint looking bright for United to pick you up anytime soon.

If you were joking by posting this - thats pretty low.

Support these guys or simply shut the *&%$ up.

 

[gunfyter]

The fallacy in your logic is you compare to other fractionals.

All fractionals are UNDERPAID by about 30K per year.

To fix this problem we start with US.

 

[dime line]

go figure, this chick will probably be at united when she gets her comm license. Her logic.....airline pilots make more than everybody.

 

[gunfyter]

Yeah and the Airlines LOSE money.... they should make less than us then right?

 

[SkyGirl]

Why should you guys make more money??????


Yeah honey, god forbid a pilot wants to make a decent wage when there are so many who will do it for less....

dammm those greedy pilots.

Hope you have a decent job now honey, cuz the future aint looking bright for United to pick you up anytime soon.

If you were joking by posting this - thats pretty low.

Support these guys or simply shut the *&%$ up.

Thanks for your intelligent and articulate response. I suspect it is consistent with how the former felon from G Unit that you chose for an avatar would respond.

I fly for fun, it is a passion with me. November 2nd will determine if I have to return to the private sector or not.

By your logic the pilots from all the other fractionals should be howling, too. They are not. What's the difference? I am merely trying to become informed.

Now, is there a serious answer to a serious question? Just the facts bearing on the question, please, I get enough abuse at work.


-SkyGirl-

 

[Heavy Set]

Thanks for your intelligent and articulate response. I suspect it is consistent with how the former felon from G Unit that you chose for an avatar would respond.

I fly for fun, it is a passion with me. November 2nd will determine if I have to return to the private sector or not.

By your logic the pilots from all the other fractionals should be howling, too. They are not. What's the difference? I am merely trying to become informed.

Now, is there a serious answer to a serious question? Just the facts bearing on the question, please, I get enough abuse at work.


-SkyGirl-

Disappointing that the NJA guys can't give you a rational answer. Clearly, frax pilots work many jobs besides just flying - they are customer-service agents, baggage handlers, aircraft cleaners, etc. and they believe they should be paid more than just "pilot wages" because their jobs entail so much more than just flying. This is not a case of just boarding the aircraft and turning left and never meeting the pax.

However, the Frax companies appear to be paying pilots much less than their Part 91 counterparts despite the fact that they fly the same equipment and possibly fly more per month. The Frax companies claim that they provide job security and an "airline-like" schedule and that this should compensate for the lower wages. However, most Frax pilots disagree with this point and believe that they are entitled to more than just a pilot wage given their multiple roles. I agree with them and hope that a better TA is agreed upon in the next 6 months. As the economic climate continues to improve and more new shares are sold, there should be less of an argument with regard to ability to pay...

 

[Majik]

Disappointing that the NJA guys can't give you a rational answer.

Can't? I think the real truth is that none of the NJA guys felt like taking the bait. This subject has been beaten into the ground. She sounds like a smart girl. Show her where the search function is on this message board and let her do a little research, if that's what she's REALLY after. I suspect her motive is more than just wondering why all fractionals pay about the same and why NJA pilots think they should try to negotiate for more. My first reaction to her post was similar to Gulfstream 200's post.

 

[Muddauber]

My first job out of the military was at a fractional and I liked it. Like the lady said, I don't see the pilots from the other fractionals bitchin' about their pay either. Why don't you just answer her question and stop trying to assign sinister motives to the poor girl.

Muddy

 

[Majik]

My first job out of the military was at a fractional and I liked it. Like the lady said, I don't see the pilots from the other fractionals bitchin' about their pay either. Why don't you just answer her question and stop trying to assign sinister motives to the poor girl.

Muddy

OK, here goes. The pilots at NJA are members of a union and collectively bargain with the company every three (or in this case 6 plus) years for wages, work rules, etc.
The other fractional pilots don't have that option. They take whatever their company offers or they walk. Maybe that is why they ain't bitchin' 'bout pay.
Their fate lies in the success of NJA pilots and the hope that their companies will up their pay to meet or exceed that of NJA pilots.

PS: I like the job also. I just don't think it's a sin to try to negotiate for more money. If that's bitchin' then color me guilty.