Why I will vote ALPA at Skywest

[Skaff]

I think most people that know me would call me a company man. SkyWest is a great company and I realize that we have a job to get done. If I need to go above and beyond to get the job done, I'm usually pretty willing. Some people view being a company man and an ALPA supporter as being conflicting. My main reason for my ALPA vote is because I no longer believe that SAPA can function in our best interests. We are almost 3000 pilots strong, and SAPA was never designed to support so many. SAPA does provide some services to its pilots, but they are services that I think could better be provided by ALPA. When it comes down to it, I believe that we need a representative group that will always stand up for its pilots, and not just when it wont affect the representors paycheck. The final straw for me was when the former President of SAPA, one with whom I voted, did not have the support of the Executive Board and was 'over ruled' in some of his decisions. Anyway, I'm rambling now, but my point is is that I believe that our management is a great group of managers, and I am voting for ALPA not because I want to butt heads with management, but because SAPA is not an effective representative group.

Vote wisely,

Skaff

 

[XPOO]

As long as you agree that ALPA is the lesser of the two evils. Has the SkyWest pilots ever looked into any other representation other than ALPA?

 

[SkyNation]

I believe that our management is a great group of managers, and I am voting for ALPA.

Vote wisely,

Skaff

do you believe that ALPA will help or hinder our 'great' management?

I have friends who will be voting yes, and it will interesting to see how this all goes.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

As long as you agree that ALPA is the lesser of the two evils. Has the SkyWest pilots ever looked into any other representation other than ALPA?

Been there, done that. It got gunned down by management/SAPA (UPA, Teamsters, etc). ALPA is our only option for legal representation now.

 

[Whydoitry]

What union do you think would be better to represent the pilots, and please provide examples. I don't think ALPA is the lesser of two evils in this case because there is only one union to choose from. The choice to be made is between representation or no representation, ALPA just happens to be the only representative body on the ballot. If you guys choose to be represented and decide you don't like ALPA then you can always change unions, but for God's sake get representation.

 

[Skaff]

As long as you agree that ALPA is the lesser of the two evils. Has the SkyWest pilots ever looked into any other representation other than ALPA?

The current ALPA drive has taken well over a year to get us to this point. I don't think that it would be smart to wait a year or more to get a different representative group. I believe that we need this now. Regionals historically hire pilots that are new or newer to the industry. With the lack of new pilots coming down the line and into the industry, we need to secure what we have now. Lack of qualified pilots+no contract+a company that gets the job done =accidents

 

[DashTrash400]

As a former Teamsters pilot (and someone who got involved) I would suggest ALPA is a far better alternative to the IBT. With either union, the strength is really at the local level with pilots getting unified and pitching in, and from that standpoint the Teamsters did well at Horizon...but so far as support goes, it was sadly lacking from the Teamsters organization as a whole, and ALPA has a second-to-none support structure already in place. That support structure is another good reason ALPA is preferable to an inhouse union... you have economies of scale working on your favor.

 

[SkyWstman]

I recently talked to someone who worked at Trans States and said that even with a union management still fired people all the time and just said "grieve it." Finaly after many months they would get their job back but without backpay. Can ALPA get backpay for employees or not? Just curious because of the guy at SKYW who after a long and costly battle won his job back with backpay and lawyer fees etc.

 

[Gobi Gred]

XPOO, Yes, there was a in house union drive that was funded by SkyWest pilots and it failed miserably. One SAPA rep (who is no longer with SkyWest) did everything he could to undermine the organizing committees efforts. Why will I be voting for ALPA? The main reason is for a legal contract. For a pilot group this size to be operating with no legal protection is not only incredibly stupid, it's simply bad business. Management has it's own legal assistance, shouldn't we have ours?

 

[Whydoitry]

do you believe that ALPA will help or hinder our 'great' management?

I have friends who will be voting yes, and it will interesting to see how this all goes.

The union is not there for management. It is not there to help nor to hinder their business plan. It is there to protect the worker. The union is just another business force/cost, just as is the price of fuel or interest rates. Managers would like fuel to be free and and interest to be 0%, but they're not and the company goes on with it's plan.

 

[Skaff]

SkyNation[/left];1429712]do you believe that ALPA will help or hinder our 'great' management?

I have friends who will be voting yes, and it will interesting to see how this all goes.

Having ALPA is not for management, it is for the pilots. SkyWest management is great but they occasionally make smart business moves that adversely effect the lives of their employees. Should they make decisions that drive down moral all for the mighty buck? No...they shouldn't, ALPA can provide the checks and balances that is required when you deal with 3000 individuals that give to the company. I don't believe that SAPA is able to provide the checks and balances that we need. I believe that our pilots are a reasonable group for the most part, I believe that management is a reasonable and I believe that we can work together to succeed.

 

[Whydoitry]

I recently talked to someone who worked at Trans States and said that even with a union management still fired people all the time and just said "grieve it." Finaly after many months they would get their job back but without backpay. Can ALPA get backpay for employees or not? Just curious because of the guy at SKYW who after a long and costly battle won his job back with backpay and lawyer fees etc.

No one can make a blanket statement and say that if you choose ALPA they will always get back pay. Every case is going to be different. The thing with having ALPA is that they will represent you, provide lawyers and vigorously defend and fight for you, no out of pocket costs. Without the union you will be hiring your own lawyer. And yes if management wants to fire an employee they will, it's their business. No union will stop that. But if fired employees continually win their arbitrations at some point the company may start working with the union.

 

[saabservant]

We at Mesaba, who survived the NWA/Mesaba holdings bankruptcy fraud process in 05 and 06 would be working for 20% less, across the board, if not for ALPA's representation, and a strong local alpa leadership. That got us a concessionary agreement (after the judicial system stripped our right to strike) that achieved recovery of wages and conditions with growth, and a labor coalition that proved effective against management's divide and conquer.

The airline business is tough, and brutally competitive. Managers have every incentive to cut your pay and working conditions at every turn, to achieve cost savings to become competitive, or to simply enhance they're own bonuses.
If you take your job and career seriously, you are nuts to not secure protection and representation.
It doesn't mean you are anti-management, or anti-business. It means you are doing your best to protect yourself, your family, and your future.
It is just a good business decision.

By the way, union (ALPA) dues are tax-deductible.
I proudly take it every year!

 

[Indy319FA]

Just curious....but when will all this be decided?

 

[PCL_128]

I recently talked to someone who worked at Trans States and said that even with a union management still fired people all the time and just said "grieve it." Finaly after many months they would get their job back but without backpay. Can ALPA get backpay for employees or not? Just curious because of the guy at SKYW who after a long and costly battle won his job back with backpay and lawyer fees etc.

Most of the pilots fired from Trans States were union volunteers that the company fired to "send a message." A couple have already received their jobs back (with backpay) and a couple of others are still in grievance, but ALPA is paying their full salary until the grievances are settled. In general, you will receive back pay if you win a wrongful termination grievance. There are certainly exceptions, but back pay is the norm.

 

[SkyNation]

Just curious....but when will all this be decided?

I think the vote starts today, phones are open for a month.

 

[SkyWstman]

Thanks for that PCL. This will help me make my decision. I thought it strange that ALPA would not be able to secure backpay. I know like you said every situation is different.

 

[SkyWstman]

PCL, You also said that ALPA pays full salary until the grievance is settled. Is that for real?

 

[PCL_128]

PCL, You also said that ALPA pays full salary until the grievance is settled. Is that for real?

That's only for cases where pilots were terminated due to union activities. In the case of the Trans States pilots, many of the terminated pilots were union volunteers.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

As long as you agree that ALPA is the lesser of the two evils. Has the SkyWest pilots ever looked into any other representation other than ALPA?

Uhm, yes more than once....Thought you already knew everything about our pilot group?

 

[difete]

ALPA stands in court SAPA does not

Compare to ASA with representation, I quote:

"Even though the ASA pilots are negotiating to amend their current contract, they

continue to have the right to fight unfair discipline in front of a neutral arbitrator

through their grievance procedure. Without union representation they would be “at
will” employees and subject to discipline up to and including termination without
recourse to representation and review by an independent third-party neutral.
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]Information provided by:[/FONT]
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]ALPA’s Representation Department"[/FONT]​

Because we are all in Skywest "at will" at this moment, and there is no "grievance" of our unfair discipline.​

We invest lots of money in getting where we are now, and our own lives day by day, away from home, comitted to doing the best and safest decisions benefiting our costumers and our company, why I wont want a real "legal" protection of such invaluable investment?

Some of my friends were unfairly terminated. They can't barely get a flying job with that on their records. It is not real or relevant to you, until it hits home.

If they had the chance to grieve their unfair termination, they would not be struggling to make their house payments today. I assure you of that.​

And that is why I will vote ALPA at Skywest.

​

 

[buscap]

I can certainly appreciate the dilema many Skywest pilots find themselves in. The Union imposed rising tide effect has definitely been to their benefit.

Why pay 2% when you already get quite a few of the union benefits, just to keep the union off the property?

The answer only reveals itself to the long term thinker: That big iron job we are all chasing is absolutely fantastic because of the unions. A regional the size of Skywest without a union hurts us all, regional and major alike.

It's that simple.

 

[Flip]

I am voting for ALPA. Tired of SAPA making excuses. Some good people at SAPA but their day is gone. Time to move on and get our house in order before it's too late

 

[MYFpilot]

I can certainly appreciate the dilema many Skywest pilots find themselves in. The Union imposed rising tide effect has definitely been to their benefit.

Why pay 2% when you already get quite a few of the union benefits, just to keep the union off the property?

The answer only reveals itself to the long term thinker: That big iron job we are all chasing is absolutely fantastic because of the unions. A regional the size of Skywest without a union hurts us all, regional and major alike.

It's that simple.

So true!! Above and beyond everything else, at our core we are all the same. We are all Airline Pilots, and it is time to unify.

"We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."

-- Benjamin Franklin

 

[Mickey]

All ALPA wants is Skywests Pilots money. They will NOT fight for you. Look how they rolled over and refused to fight for Trans States Pilots vs. GoJet Skumbags. They did not want to spend the money to fight for what is right, period. Skywest pilots are doing better than what ALPA could ever have done for them. ALPA does not protect regional pilots. All they want is your money so they can fight for scopes against you. Conflictingting interests..... hmmm!

ALPA will only protect your job if you're a Union leader. If you're not, too bad.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

All ALPA wants is Skywests Pilots money. They will NOT fight for you. Look how they rolled over and refused to fight for Trans States Pilots vs. GoJet Skumbags. They did not want to spend the money to fight for what is right, period. Skywest pilots are doing better than what ALPA could ever have done for them. ALPA does not protect regional pilots. All they want is your money so they can fight for scopes against you. Conflictingting interests..... hmmm!

Gosh, you're so right...and SAPA doesn't have any conflicting interests at all!!! Wanna buy some oceanfront Arizona property from me?

 

[120% Torque]

All ALPA wants is Skywests Pilots money. They will NOT fight for you. Look how they rolled over and refused to fight for Trans States Pilots vs. GoJet Skumbags. They did not want to spend the money to fight for what is right, period. Skywest pilots are doing better than what ALPA could ever have done for them. ALPA does not protect regional pilots. All they want is your money so they can fight for scopes against you. Conflictingting interests..... hmmm!

ALPA will only protect your job if you're a Union leader. If you're not, too bad.

So Alpa national refused to fight for Trans States vs. Gojet Skumbags to " because "all they want is your money so they can fight for scopes against you"? Hate to burst your bubble but 1. You dont know anything about Sapa, the so called representation of skywest pilots right now. 2. Regionals do not generate much cash flow often times using more than they take in.

 

[bmpilot2003]

All ALPA wants is Skywests Pilots money. They will NOT fight for you. Look how they rolled over and refused to fight for Trans States Pilots vs. GoJet Skumbags. They did not want to spend the money to fight for what is right, period. Skywest pilots are doing better than what ALPA could ever have done for them. ALPA does not protect regional pilots. All they want is your money so they can fight for scopes against you. Conflictingting interests..... hmmm!

ALPA will only protect your job if you're a Union leader. If you're not, too bad.

I'd rather have a job flying a bigger airplane than a crappy little RJ. Thats not conflicting at ALL!

 

[DashTrash400]

ALPA does not protect regional pilots. All they want is your money so they can fight for scopes against you. Conflictingting interests..... hmmm!

What's hilarious about this argument is that many of the people who make it are those who claim they just want to put in their time at the regionals and move on. That sort of person should be the biggest proponent of strengthening scope at the majors. Even lifers at the regionals shouldn't feel too threatened...at this point, ALPA holding the line on scope doesn't mean your flying's going to get taken away, it just means you won't be flying 100+ seaters at your "regional." The only people that lack of continued growth caused by stronger scope really threatens are the 250 hr noobs who are deathly adverse to instructing for a year or two.

 

[Goose Egg]

My main reason for my ALPA vote is because I no longer believe that SAPA can function in our best interests. We are almost 3000 pilots strong, and SAPA was never designed to support so many. SAPA does provide some services to its pilots, but they are services that I think could better be provided by ALPA.

This is actually the best pro-union argument I've heard so far. Spare me your ALPA uber alles lines and all that brotherhood BS--80,000 strong and every one of them ready to throw me under the bus! But I think I have come to the conclusion that SAPA just isn't working for us. Whether ALPA is the answer to that, I'm not sure yet. But thanks Skaff for some rational thought. It's refreshing amidst all this propaganda.

-Goose