Why hire military over your competition?

[SIG600]

Hey Wave,
I'm gonna beat this dead horse for one last time. Please don't think of what I'm about to say as arrogance. I feel very fortunate to have had an opportunity to serve and be a part of Uncle Sam's flying fraternity.

Uncle Sam doesn't spend millions of dollars on just anyone to fly his airplanes. Uncle Sam's training program has proven track record that it is extremely effective; we've achieved air superiority in every war/conflict where our presence was made known. We can agree that we have the mightiest military force in the world (though coming to an end slowly... whole different can of warms).
You keep referring to 121 time and how much the military folks need experience in this subject. What is so hard about it, if you don't mind me asking? We all have access to the FAR/AIM, FOM, MEL, aircraft manuals, etc. We are all literate. The airlines don't even require you to memorize the FOM or the systems manual, as was required in the AF. The memorization items in the airline world is minimal. They train to the lowest common denominator. Besides, in this day and age, upgrades will take a decade or more so we, the dumb ex-mil types, have plenty of time to catch up. I remember upgrading to aircraft commander in less than a year, flying all over God's planet. My buddy who flew F-16s was leading a 4 ship into combat with just over 500 hours in the jet. You think we should have received remedial 121/135 training?
From my experience, the airline flying is exponentially easier than any flying I did in the military. All of the planning is done by dispatch, the hotels are setup, crew meals are on board the aircraft... we show up and fly the jet from point A to point B. The bottom line is that the ex-mil types are trainable and can adapt to the major airline flying. That's my .02.

Nailed it.

 

[maru657]

The problem with the above argument is that yes, the majors do almost everything for you. However a lot of freight carriers etc don't. Plenty of young guys flying heavy aircraft worldwide who don't have those options. Many of them are vets also but somehow their greater experience dose'nt count. Once again, look at who influences the hiring policy. If it seems predjucial, and it probably is, why should any these pilots looking for a job ever respect a picket line at these companies.

 

[Turtle21]

16 pages, and this isn't resolved yet?

 

[C-150ETOPS]

16 pages, and this isn't resolved yet?

Listen pal, we are still "airing the grievences"

It's a little early in the holiday season to move onto "feats of strength". :laugh:

 

[SIG600]

16 pages, and this isn't resolved yet?

Pfsh, this is 16 pages of just one thread.

 

[bigboeings]

I'll add my .02 cents to this, because I'm directly affected. After 13 yrs at an ACMI carrier I find myself suddenly on the street looking for a job. With over 10000 hrs. PIC with half of that widebody international. As a Captain at a non scheduled carrier, there was no such thing as easy. I having a hard time getting anyone to call me for an interview and when I do, I'm there with guys with mostly military background. Nothing against them but I do find it a bit biased and disconcerting that they are getting hired . No sour grapes but it is discouraging.

 

[maru657]

I'll add my .02 cents to this, because I'm directly affected. After 13 yrs at an ACMI carrier I find myself suddenly on the street looking for a job. With over 10000 hrs. PIC with half of that widebody international. As a Captain at a non scheduled carrier, there was no such thing as easy. I having a hard time getting anyone to call me for an interview and when I do, I'm there with guys with mostly military background. Nothing against them but I do find it a bit biased and disconcerting that they are getting hired . No sour grapes but it is discouraging.

This is exactly my point, but when they have labor issues and they will eventually, how can they expect for someone to support "them" in any way.

 

[livin'thesim]

For a bunch of supposedly hardened military pilots, a few of them sure seem to have very, very tender feelings.

The merest suggestion that they are not automatically the most skilled and qualified pilot in every circumstance is a thought that many don't seem to be able to resolve without defensively lashing out.

I find this beyond entertaining. In fact, I am going to get some more entertainment by asserting something else.

Suppose you were going to hire street captains to fly for a 121 carrier. Who would be the better choice? A high-time regional captain flying a 90-seat jet, or a military pilot with 1500 hours?

C'mon now, it has been a while since I've seen outlandish rationalizations. Do not disappoint me.

 

[livin'thesim]

name me one civilian school that starts in turbine equipment? Name one where at 250 you have 200 hours of TJ time? Name one that has a screening exam that one in five passes? Name one where the average ACT score is close to 29? Civilian schools are a pay your fee get your B outfits/ Fail a phase check, get more training, try again. In the military school final phase go to the student pilots disposition board

The logical fallacy in this is that this method produces the best-trained military pilot you can get for the time and money invested. I am convinced that if your goal was to create the absolute best civilian 121 pilot using the same methodology, you would use a different training footprint, aircraft mix, and timeline. You probably would have many of the same individuals do well, but you would probably have a different personality profile for "head of the class" than you would for training for a military pilot slot."

Perhaps the military produces a "Formula-1 car" in terms of pilots, and perhaps the civilian world produces a Totota. Unless we are going racing, I would choose to own the Toyota. It's better suited for everyday driving.

I watched two military pilots struggle in my new-hire airline class. Both were former PIC in whatever type it was, I forget. It was a larger transport-type aircraft, though.

They did well in the end, but they were nowhere near the runaway stars of the class.

Ironically, the worst performer in the class (who was civilian) came from another airline flying the exact same type. Go figure.

So, if the military pilot is always and everywhere the superior candidate, then why do we see things like this happen? Are my own eyes deceiving me?

 

[pilotyip]

I watched two military pilots struggle in my new-hire airline class. Both were former PIC in whatever type it was, I forget. It was a larger transport-type aircraft, though.

They did well in the end, but they were nowhere near the runaway stars of the class.

I don't think anyone has stated that the military pilots are the absolute best. But they are uniformly good due to the, screening, weeding out, discipline, and continual training process. Unless you are in combat, you never fly without a training objective.

To a military pilot going into his next job wither it be 121, corp, 135, it is just another training evolution at which they will be successful. Airlines know this.

I know we will now have serious of posts about a military pilot that my brother's next door neighbor's friend at church knows who busted out of 121 training. It does happen but not very often.