Why Can't Expressjet Reserves Get Consistent Golden Days Off?

[SpaceShipEarth]

How about that May 1st is less than a week away and I STILL don't know if I am working or not on that day! Been dealing with this for almost 5 years now! It's crap

 

[Nevets]

The best pay and QOL increase XJT crewmembers can get at this point in the industry is not thru a new contract but through growth. You guys maybe sensing dejuvu here in a few months IF Skywest Inc gets awarded/purchases PNCL's 16 900s. Continuing to be militant and chest thumping may result in a Skywest base reopening in ATL. Those of you whining about reserve rules will still be on reserve for several more years as Skywest upgrades and hires continually. Keep stepping over dollars looking for pennies...

You are selling yourself WAY short if you feel that the best pay and QOL increase XJT crew members can get at this point in the industry is not through a new contract but though growth. That's the same exact bs mainline pilots fell for when giving away scope. I honestly cant believe there are so many people on the CRJ side that have this mentality. Go ahead and sell yourselves out for someone else's loss of 16 900s and the subsequent furlough but I wouldn't feel right unless we can bring those PNCL pilots with the airplanes, with their seniority and pay. But that's just me.

 

[777forever]

You are selling yourself WAY short if you feel that the best pay and QOL increase XJT crew members can get at this point in the industry is not through a new contract but though growth. That's the same exact bs mainline pilots fell for when giving away scope. I honestly cant believe there are so many people on the CRJ side that have this mentality. Go ahead and sell yourselves out for someone else's loss of 16 900s and the subsequent furlough but I wouldn't feel right unless we can bring those PNCL pilots with the airplanes, with their seniority and pay. But that's just me.

You have either little regard for how the regional industry works or are just ignoring reality. First, you cannot compare mainline pilot's situatuon to regionals in the same breath. Second, maybe for senior capts like yourself growth wont do much but for the vast majority of pilots at the combined carrier growth would do way more in terms of QOL & Pay. Sure improvements will come with the contract but reserve is still reserve, working weekends is still working weekends, and being an FO is still being an FO and there is nothing a new contract can do to change that.



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[Nevets]

You have either little regard for how the regional industry works or are just ignoring reality. First, you cannot compare mainline pilot's situatuon to regionals in the same breath. Second, maybe for senior capts like yourself growth wont do much but for the vast majority of pilots at the combined carrier growth would do way more in terms of QOL & Pay. Sure improvements will come with the contract but reserve is still reserve, working weekends is still working weekends, and being an FO is still being an FO and there is nothing a new contract can do to change that.



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I'm not a senior captain but that is beside the point. The point is that your expectations are low in our prospects of increasing our QOL & pay with a new contract. And your justification for agreeing to a new contract that doesn't have increased QOL and pay is PNCL's 16 900s? The simile that I made between mainline pilots and your excuse to settle for a new contract with no increase of QOL is that both groups would give up something now for a possible outcome later that is perceived to be better. Only management wins in that scenario. None of this is to say that growth isn't good for QOL & pay. I just don't feel they are mutually exclusive.

Now you say, "sure improvements will come with the contract but reserve is still reserve..." so I'm glad you've moderated from your position a bit. And I believe that I'm realistic and which is why I hope that if we do get PNCL's 16 900 (because I don't believe they will go to mainline), that 80 captains and 80 FOs come with them and they are integrated with their longevity and seniority. That's a "win" for everyone.

 

[79%N1]

I'm not a senior captain but that is beside the point. The point is that your expectations are low in our prospects of increasing our QOL & pay with a new contract. And your justification for agreeing to a new contract that doesn't have increased QOL and pay is PNCL's 16 900s? The simile that I made between mainline pilots and your excuse to settle for a new contract with no increase of QOL is that both groups would give up something now for a possible outcome later that is perceived to be better. Only management wins in that scenario. None of this is to say that growth isn't good for QOL & pay. I just don't feel they are mutually exclusive.

Now you say, "sure improvements will come with the contract but reserve is still reserve..." so I'm glad you've moderated from your position a bit. And I believe that I'm realistic and which is why I hope that if we do get PNCL's 16 900 (because I don't believe they will go to mainline), that 80 captains and 80 FOs come with them and they are integrated with their longevity and seniority. That's a "win" for everyone.

And you are saying those 80 Captains and FO's would be integrated into our seniority lists how??? Pretty pragmatic of you, but since that is a separate company, I don't see that EVER happening! Heck, Skywest took 700's from ASA and we didn't get to send any pilots - and we were essentially the same company.

 

[777forever]

I'm not a senior captain but that is beside the point. The point is that your expectations are low in our prospects of increasing our QOL & pay with a new contract. And your justification for agreeing to a new contract that doesn't have increased QOL and pay is PNCL's 16 900s? The simile that I made between mainline pilots and your excuse to settle for a new contract with no increase of QOL is that both groups would give up something now for a possible outcome later that is perceived to be better. Only management wins in that scenario. None of this is to say that growth isn't good for QOL & pay. I just don't feel they are mutually exclusive.

Now you say, "sure improvements will come with the contract but reserve is still reserve..." so I'm glad you've moderated from your position a bit. And I believe that I'm realistic and which is why I hope that if we do get PNCL's 16 900 (because I don't believe they will go to mainline), that 80 captains and 80 FOs come with them and they are integrated with their longevity and seniority. That's a "win" for everyone.

Ok before we go over the deep end with this, I know our negotiating is working too hard for us to be on here debating semantics. Bottom line is, Im looking for a contract that not only gives us reasonable pay and QOL increases, but also gives the company the flexibility to grow and obtain a sustainable profit in today's regional environment. A strong healthy company is better for the pilots in the long run. I understand its a fine line being too lax and getting Comaired(E170 Debacle) and being too militant and getting Airtraned(SWA 2nd offer worsened). I trust that both the XJT & ASA NCs have the vision and determination to put aside their differences and work towards the good of all.

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[BOX OFFICE]

Bottom line is, Im looking for a contract that not only gives us reasonable pay and QOL increases, but also gives the company the flexibility to grow and obtain a sustainable profit in today's regional environment.

But that's the problem. The regional model is flawed. They CAN'T make a sustainable profit in this environment, and no pilot contract is going to change that.

 

[777forever]

But that's the problem. The regional model is flawed. They CAN'T make a sustainable profit in this environment, and no pilot contract is going to change that.

The model is not flawed. Too many players is the problem causing airlines to bid for flying below cost to win the business of mainline carriers. Once these underbidding airlines racing to the bottom smack bottom and either go out of business or greatly downsize, the regional industry will stabilize.

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[FishandFly]

The model is not flawed. Too many players is the problem causing airlines to bid for flying below cost to win the business of mainline carriers. Once these underbidding airlines racing to the bottom smack bottom and either go out of business or greatly downsize, the regional industry will stabilize.

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Your response is a good theory, but you are blind to the real problem primarily because you are ignoring "who" defines the rules. Here you go.

[Corrected QUOTE=777forever;2294662]The model is flawed. Mainline carriers want far too many players bidding for flying, hoping that new players bid below cost to win the business of said mainline carriers, even if only for a short term solution. Once these underbidding airlines racing to the bottom smack bottom and either go out of business or greatly downsize, the regional industry will have new underbidding airlines form and attempt get into the game to repeat the cycle due to the demand for their business model gifted by the mainline carriers' business model.

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[BOX OFFICE]

The model is not flawed. Too many players is the problem causing airlines to bid for flying below cost to win the business of mainline carriers. Once these underbidding airlines racing to the bottom smack bottom and either go out of business or greatly downsize, the regional industry will stabilize.

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You're not looking at it from the viewpoint of mainline. Mainline loves the model. It isn't broken for them. They want 10 regional carriers bidding below cost to secure the flying. And as soon as one "smacks the bottom", they'll just create another with no seniority.

The future of the regionals is a return to the 90's "commuter" airline model. Flying their own planes code share for multiple carriers with their own paint jobs. Probably in large turboprops. Just watch. It's the only way to make money now.