Why are the airtran to swa guys not voting?

[Daddy]

FAT not getting retro is total BS...I will look into that. I doubt that's a valid rumor. Not necessarily bc it leaves AT out, but bc it involves us getting any real retro. That would garner a no vote from me from a unity-killing aspect alone. Don't take it personally if guys vote yes for that though...many will likely vote yes to anything (ANything? YES ANYTHING). I have met several FAT and they ALL seem to understand the new negotiating landscape. Thanks for voting to those who have. To the rest, please PLEASE vote. We are in desperate need of educated voters (and really voters in general). Go to the swapa candidate forum and read the platforms and just pick. PM me if you want input.

 

[PCL_128]

I wouldn't worry too much about retro. It probably isn't going to happen. Expect a signing bonus.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Yeah, that attitude is going to unify us.

I wasn't "trying to unify us" with that post--I was trying to dispel a BS rumor from Fletch, whose every single post on FI seems designed to sow hate and discontent. The SLI and the entire way the merger has been handled, is over. It is what it is. We can all move forward and work to better our collective future, or not. Fletch seems to have picked "or not," and now goes out of his way to piss off and stir up trouble when he can. His post was either a outright lie or an intentional distortion just to muddy the waters again.

Bubba

 

[PCL_128]

It's easy for the person who isn't affected to say "move on."

 

[SWA Bubba]

It's easy for the person who isn't affected to say "move on."

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. Fletch (or anyone, OAT or FAT for that matter) is welcome to stay and work together; stay and be a loner; stay and do nothing but collect a paycheck; or do exactly what you're doing if they want: quit, and go home because things didn't go their way. Any of those things. But spreading lies to piss off other people, who may have made a different decision, is kinda chickensh1t; wouldn't you agree PCL?

Bubba

 

[humveedriver]

Lol. Getting fired up over non existent offers is even funnier. Unless I missed that we have a TA to vote on since applying for mediation a few days ago.

 

[fletch717]

Bubba, I'm just showing you that you are facing an entirely different management. You and SWAPA are like Wyle e coyote, you guys are standing on the train tracks with no idea that the train is Comming. The biggest problem is you senior guys are your own worst enemy. The company knows it, that is why there won't be a contract any time soon. I could tell you how to get a contract within 3 months by doing ONE thing (no strike, no sick out, no slow taxi) but the senior guys will never do it. I didn't vote, I won't vote and I don't care anymore. So it doesn't matter to me whether you get a contract or not.

 

[Tripower455]

Lol. Getting fired up over non existent offers is even funnier. Unless I missed that we have a TA to vote on since applying for mediation a few days ago.

Just wait.... SWApA's turd of a sub flattish counter offer is not off the table yet.

In a show of "good faith", Gary is likely to actually accept it (he'd be stupid not to) during the mediation process.

This assures that it will be the next contract, after a concerted, 23-0 SWApA-ganda campaign to convince us of just how good it is (just in case there are some dissenting voices), especially compared to the next offer.

The pilot group will accept it with an enthusiastic YES! vote, and then spend the next few years complaining about it. Rinse and repeat.

 

[PCL_128]

But spreading lies to piss off other people, who may have made a different decision, is kinda chickensh1t; wouldn't you agree PCL?

Yes, I agree that spreading lies is wrong. But I don't know whether Fletch spread any lies or not.

I was addressing more of your overall commentary that people need to move on. That's not human nature, so you shouldn't expect it. Losing seniority is something that people continue to experience indefinitely. It isn't something that happens once and then it goes away. That makes it a lot harder to "get over," which you should realize. But you're too much of a dick to see how negatively this affected people on the other side.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Bubba, I'm just showing you that you are facing an entirely different management. You and SWAPA are like Wyle e coyote, you guys are standing on the train tracks with no idea that the train is Comming. The biggest problem is you senior guys are your own worst enemy. The company knows it, that is why there won't be a contract any time soon. I could tell you how to get a contract within 3 months by doing ONE thing (no strike, no sick out, no slow taxi) but the senior guys will never do it. I didn't vote, I won't vote and I don't care anymore. So it doesn't matter to me whether you get a contract or not. Unity.... F$& your unity, I'm here for ME, so suck it.

Yes, Fletch, we're all quite aware of your attitude, expressed succinctly in bold above; that was my whole point. Thanks for reiterating it, as expected. However your attempt to stir up trouble with others with fake rumors and lies is fairly transparent. You know, Fletch, just because you hate your work life, doesn't mean everyone else does.

Anyway, thanks also for pointing out that our management is "different" now. We really appreciate you pointing that out; I don't know if anyone on this side had noticed.

Bubba

 

[PCL_128]

Anyway, thanks also for pointing out that our management is "different" now. We really appreciate you pointing that out; I don't know if anyone on this side had noticed.

Are you kidding? A lot of people clearly haven't, including one presidential candidate.

 

[fletch717]

Well then bubba, since you guys have it all figured out. I'll leave you to it. Good luck, you're going to need it. If you ever figure out that ONE thing you and your fellow bubbas need to do, be sure to let your union know.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Yes, I agree that spreading lies is wrong. But I don't know whether Fletch spread any lies or not.

Really? Spreading a rumor of some sort of "secret provision" where FAT guys get cheated out of earned money doesn't qualify? You used to be a union guy--do you really think anyone could legally pull that off?

I was addressing more of your overall commentary that people need to move on. That's not human nature, so you shouldn't expect it. Losing seniority is something that people continue to experience indefinitely. It isn't something that happens once and then it goes away. That makes it a lot harder to "get over," which you should realize. But you're too much of a dick to see how negatively this affected people on the other side.

Sorry, but I think you're wrong. I think it IS human nature to "move on." Some people faster than others, for sure. But people DO move on. And you're also wrong that I don't see how people "on the other side" are negatively affected. (actually on both sides, something that you refuse to acknowledge). There's pilots on both sides who were unhappy about how things happened, as well as people who were very happy, on both sides, with the deal. I've flown with many FATs who are glad that it happened, including last week with a guy who was going to quit Airtran (it sucked so bad, to him), until the acquisition was announced. I see both.

So yeah, I do realize--there's FATs like that, who are happy, and those like you and Fletch, who aren't. Same on this side, especially on the junior end. You don't see or acknowledge that, nor do you realize that some FATs loved what happened--you presume that they're all pissed off like you, when it's not true.

People are what they are. They mostly move on, at different rates, to be sure. And perhaps a few like you and Fletch cannot. Whatever. But those who don't or can't move on, have no business trying to screw those who are moving on.

Bubba

 

[PCL_128]

Really? Spreading a rumor of some sort of "secret provision" where FAT guys get cheated out of earned money doesn't qualify? You used to be a union guy--do you really think anyone could legally pull that off?

I don't think SWAPA has much of a clue of what they can get away with legally. Empire Central isn't exactly awash in attorneys like Herndon Parkway is. I think it's entirely plausible that they think they can get away with not paying retro to AirTran pilots. But again, I don't think it will matter, because there won't be any retro.

Sorry, but I think you're wrong. I think it IS human nature to "move on." Some people faster than others, for sure. But people DO move on. And you're also wrong that I don't see how people "on the other side" are negatively affected. (actually on both sides, something that you refuse to acknowledge). There's pilots on both sides who were unhappy about how things happened, as well as people who were very happy, on both sides, with the deal. I've flown with many FATs who are glad that it happened, including last week with a guy who was going to quit Airtran (it sucked so bad, to him), until the acquisition was announced. I see both.

So yeah, I do realize--there's FATs like that, who are happy, and those like you and Fletch, who aren't. Same on this side, especially on the junior end. You don't see or acknowledge that, nor do you realize that some FATs loved what happened--you presume that they're all pissed off like you, when it's not true.

People are what they are. They mostly move on, at different rates, to be sure. And perhaps a few like you and Fletch cannot. Whatever. But those who don't or can't move on, have no business trying to screw those who are moving on.

Bubba

Lear70 has told you guys repeatedly, but you don't listen: pilots aren't going to be honest with you when you're flying with them. They'll cooperate to get through the trip without any arguments, and just smile and nod when you say idiotic crap about lottery winnings and such. That has no bearing on how they really feel.

There are a small handful of pilots at the very bottom of the AirTran seniority list who are thrilled with the merger, because they got a pay raise and had no prospect of a reasonable upgrade time anyway. Everyone else is pissed off to varying degrees, depending on how much their life has been turned upside down (lost seat, new commute, etc.). And you know what pisses people off the most? Your constant attempts to draw a false equivalency. "There are people here pissed off, too." Boo f*cking hoo. Some guy adding three months to his upgrade time, or someone getting bumped out of his MCO domicile for six months is no comparison to a captain losing his seat, or a pilot who was about to upgrade now never going to see the left seat before retirement. Stop pretending that people on both sides have equal justifications for anger.

 

[SWA Bubba]

I don't think SWAPA has much of a clue of what they can get away with legally. Empire Central isn't exactly awash in attorneys like Herndon Parkway is. I think it's entirely plausible that they think they can get away with not paying retro to AirTran pilots. But again, I don't think it will matter, because there won't be any retro.

Nice tactic.

Instead of addressing the absurdity of SWAPA creating a "secret provision" targeting and screwing FATs (which was the actual discussion), you just punt and go back to how incompetent SWAPA is compared to ALPA.

Like that has anything to do with it.

Lear70 has told you guys repeatedly, but you don't listen: pilots aren't going to be honest with you when you're flying with them. They'll cooperate to get through the trip without any arguments, and just smile and nod when you say idiotic crap about lottery winnings and such. That has no bearing on how they really feel.

There are a small handful of pilots at the very bottom of the AirTran seniority list who are thrilled with the merger, because they got a pay raise and had no prospect of a reasonable upgrade time anyway. Everyone else is pissed off to varying degrees, depending on how much their life has been turned upside down (lost seat, new commute, etc.). And you know what pisses people off the most? Your constant attempts to draw a false equivalency. "There are people here pissed off, too." Boo f*cking hoo. Some guy adding three months to his upgrade time, or someone getting bumped out of his MCO domicile for six months is no comparison to a captain losing his seat, or a pilot who was about to upgrade now never going to see the left seat before retirement. Stop pretending that people on both sides have equal justifications for anger.

Whatever you say, PCL. Everybody at Airtran is exactly as pissed off and bitter as you are. Everyone at Airtran got screwed, and everyone at Southwest won the lottery. I guess some of the FATs are better actors than I thought.

You do realize that you're starting to sound exactly as you accuse Southwest people of. Well, probably you don't realize. It's all about you and your ALPA worldview, after all.

Whatever, PCL. Enjoy your life. Hopefully you'll be more successful at your next career, then you were at flying airplanes or running a union.

Bubba

 

[wood pecker]

Why do y'all have to go at each other the whole time? The way you get the contract done is easy. Offer management a large bonus if a contract is signed just like they rewarded themselves for every other thing they got from 15% ROIC to getting 800's.

In my opinion after being at 2 other airlines where we had to do strike votes it is pretty obvious that is where we are headed. It is the negotiating game and until the shareholders feel their money is at risk, you will never get a contract worth a darn.

 

[j41driver]

It's bad, but I don't think anything could be as bad as the NPA.

Don't jinx us.

 

[j41driver]

...when you say idiotic crap about lottery winnings and such.

I've been over here about 2.5 years and have been based in OAK, PHX, and MDW. I've flown trips out of BWI and LAS and have flown with guys from every other base at one point or another and I have yet to hear anyone talk about "lottery winnings and such". Not saying it hasn't happened but I've been here longer than most ex-AT guys so you'd think I would've heard it first hand at one point or another. I moved on quite some time ago so perhaps that has played some part.

 

[Tripower455]

Whatever you say, PCL. Everybody at Airtran is exactly as pissed off and bitter as you are. Everyone at Airtran got screwed, and everyone at Southwest won the lottery. I guess some of the FATs are better actors than I thought.

Exactly.......

Being at ground zero of the SLI, (MCO), I fly with more FAT folks than I do OSW anymore. Yeah, some are not as happy as others, but my BS meter is pretty accurate, and, overall, most are happy here.

FWIW, most FAT folks are far happier than the RSW folks who are getting displaced every month.

I think the real $hit storm is coming in the next few months though when the last hold outs head over.

 

[humveedriver]

Exactly.......

Being at ground zero of the SLI, (MCO), I fly with more FAT folks than I do OSW anymore. Yeah, some are not as happy as others, but my BS meter is pretty accurate, and, overall, most are happy here.

FWIW, most FAT folks are far happier than the RSW folks who are getting displaced every month.

I think the real $hit storm is coming in the next few months though when the last hold outs head over.

"The real hold outs" are going to march in step like everyone else. There is nothing real about it other than seniority. They have it, those who have transitioned in the last 6-12 months did not. I'm sure they will be OK sitting at home, planning ski trips or maybe seeing a beach or two. They will probably take some time to compare senior FO vs Lance vs line Capt scenarios. But as a FAT myself, I could really give a crap about them transitioning and bringing some kind of renewed hate to group. Anymore than I want junior OSW FOs bitching about their delayed upgrade. All I know for sure is PCL likes to spend time on the SWAPA forum. Maybe with this mediation application, he may have to stick around long enough to see his former pilots get a fair contract..