Why airlines should buy 777's over A340's

[TonyC]

Irregardless of the AWST article, ...

Which is it? First you present the article as evidence to support your claim, and now you want me to disregard it. I'm confused.


Listen, I understand your bias. I respect your right to an opinion. I'm just pointing out that your bias is undermining your objectivity.


Airbus seeing the light? Come on.

 

[bocefus]

The question remains

 

[TonyC]

The question remains

I read this, and thought, "What question?" Stymied, I scrolled back to see if there was a question on the table that I had neglected to address. I returned to the post to which I originally responded and found none. Finally, I went to the beginning of the thread to see what I might have missed.

01-13-2005, 12:31 CST

I am a Boeing fan also, for a variety of reasons, primarily superior maintainability and superior control logic/philosophy. I have to admit that with Midway Atoll airport closing later this year, ETOPS airplanes are going to take a hit on Pacific routes, 4 engined aircraft will have a decided advantage.

01-17-2005, 05:17 CST

You are kidding I hope. Boeing is not even the largest defense contractor in the US, much less the world. You are seriously misinformed if you believe this to be true. The issue with is much larger than direct subsidies, EADS, the parent company of Airbus not only provides launch aid for aircraft design and manufacturing to directly "compete" with Boeing, they sell aircraft at costs lower than that which it cost to produce in order to gain dominance in the market. Now that Boeing has threatened to take these issues to the WTO, EADS, (Airbus) is beginning to see the light.

01-17-2005, 10:45 CST

really off the mark? Well, it seems that Airbus has dramatically changed their tune regarding launch aid (subsidies) and whether this matter should go before the WTO. What do you attribure the change to?

01-17-2005, 11:42 CST

Irregardless of the AWST article, I again ask you to explain why Airbus is now amicable to discussions concerning elimination of launch aid outside of the WTO when previously they had a defiant, "take the issue to the WTO, we don't care" attitude. Boeing gets unfair tax breaks form Washington state? Do you mean the same tax breaks that are offered to any manufacturer, similar to the ones offered by the state of MS to EADS to build a Eurocopter factility? Or perhaps similar to the state of Florida offereing tax breaks to Embraer to build a factory in Jax? Are these illegal also? Washington unfairly gives Boeing support via research and development contracts? I suppose there is no similar relationship with EADS-Airbus? I wonder how they got that NACA wing on the A-300?
[The last two sentences, while punctuated with question marks, are in fact statements with incorrect punctuation.]

I believe I have addressed the substantial questions, and have not attempted to answer those that appear to be rhetorical or simply argumentative. Exactly which question remains?

 

[cornbread]

True Competition

Global economy is a fact of life. However, it is arguably unethical when airbus undercuts their prices to a level that no manufacturer (that is not underwritten by several govt. economies) can compete. The financial strain to accomplish these tactics can only be absorbed by a manufacturer that has several economies underwriting these low-ball prices. It is no different than the kid on the block who cannot fight without his brothers hiding behind the fence.

Being a patriot involves a great deal more than a sticker of Old Glory.

Boeing is the largest defense contractor in the world, to the tune of billions of dollars per year. Our government underwrites what Boeing does on the commercial side by way of massive defense contracts on the military side. Europe's assistace to Airbus is just a little more direct.

Being a patriot involves realizing that we are going to be part of an increasingly global economy and preparing for that fact.

Scott

Hi Scott,

My post simply states that Airbus is underwritten by many nation-state economies, versus our sole economy. Due to this, they [Airbus] are able to sell aircraft at significantly lower prices that Boeing often cannot compete with.

I never implied that the U.S. Govt. in no way supporting Boeing, on the contrary.

no manufacturer Boeing (that is not underwritten by several govt. economies because Boeing is only underwritten by one)

Being a patriot involves realizing that we are going to be part of an increasingly global economy and preparing for that fact.

No question. Helll, I think the forks on Harley-Davidsons are made in Japan.
(which, I am sure works for both involved and IS the essence of global economy)

However, the first step would be supporting a US aircraft manufacturer over a foreign manufacturer/community with predatory tactics. Maybe I am wrong but is global economy supposed to be predatory? (Boeing v. nearly all of Europe)

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fanatic (passionate, yes) that thinks that you cannot be American unless you only buy American. It is not possible to exist w/o buying foreign products. All anyone has to do is look at the tags on most of their clothing.

I simply feel that doing my part includes buying American when I can (especially on big ticket items) and patronizing American companies that do the same. Also, shedding a little light on the Airbus issue so maybe someone that doesn't know can be more informed.

I apologize if my first post was unclear. If it was, it is bound to be as clear as mud now.

 

[bocefus]

Euros realize that their subsidy counter argument is lame

WTO Spat May Spark European Funding RethinkAviation Week & Space Technology01/24/2005, page 22
Douglas BarrieLondon

Michael A. TavernaParis

Path to support commercial aerospace could shift as Europe, U.S. face off over funding
Alternate Routes

Beyond the immediate concern of avoiding any damaging World Trade Organization ruling, the issue of reimbursable loans is beginning to force potential funding alternatives onto the European aerospace agenda.

While Washington and Brussels have brokered a 12-week breather in the Boeing-Airbus wrangle, some European industrialists and government officials are starting to consider whether repayable launch assistance has a long-term future.

"IN A EUROPEAN CONTEXT the issue of launch aid is putting a spotlight on broader aspects of research and development funding. People are prepared to think about alternatives," says one Brussels-based aerospace industrialist.

The U.S. and Europe have agreed on a three-month stay of execution in attempting to craft an agreement to replace a 1992 accord covering government funding for large commercial aircraft development. Pegging out the ground for negotiations, however, is far easier than actually reaching agreement.

In the face of U.S. opprobrium, Europe displays a united front. But, subsurface, indications are that not all governments are irrevocably wed to repayable launch aid. The U.K. finance ministry is, at best, lukewarm to the idea, say industry sources there.

 

[CSY Mon]

Exactly which question remains?

This one?....

Why airlines should buy 777's over A340's

 

[TonyC]

This one?....

Ummm... I give. I can't think of a good reason.

 

[Skank]

Hey Xrated.....
No problem Bro! Its all Good. This is all just friendly sparing to keep the blood flowing on those boring evenings in the hotel or the hub.

Down to the wire for the Steelers Today!!!!

Whale Rider,
I know those evenings in the hotel can be boring, but if you look out the window you might see that you left your Whale double parked. Could you please move it?

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Airbus chain saw joke.....

Ah yes, the A-320 "Chainsaw" (STILL one of the best aircraft nicknames around)

What is the difference between an Airbus and a Husquavarna chain saw?

-about 100 trees a minute!

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

KGDY- UAL 777 in Arizona

I had a MX flight to Goodyear, AZ and saw 3 UAL B777 parked and being made ready for return. The MX guy said UAL maybe returning all the B777 and considering an Airbus order. This supposedly was from the B777 fleet manager that had been out there with the B777. Anyone else have information on the subject. I find it hard to believe, but there the jets were, just siting there.

Also, I counted 9 UAL B737-500s on the ramp that were going out of UAL service.

 

[xanderman]

I hope everyone buys from Airbus, so Boeing will continue to give Southwest great prices on the 737s so that we'll continue to dominate!

Yeah but Airbus gives everybody airplanes for FREE!!!

 

[uba757]

2 of those 777's in Arizona are repos. Broker friend of mine told me about them last month.