Who will win: EMB190 or CRJ1000

[PCL_128]

You kind of missed his point. It's not where you fly that makes you a regional, it's who decides where to fly. AirTran may not fly internationally, but management and marketing determine the destinations. I fly internationally, but it is mainline that decides those destinations, not my management or marketing (the latter of which does not even exist at a regional airline). So yes, AirTran is mainline because no one else controlls their flying. And yes, I am a regional pilot who wishes mainline had never farmed out nearly 50% of their flying, be it on a jet or not.

Well said.

 

[landlover]

who would win in a fight? a grilled cheese or a taco?

 

[Airline Driver]

And you're cheering it along. Ridiculous. I always get a good laugh out of statements like this. Look at the side of your airplane. What name is there and what livery is it painted in? Is it the name of your regional airline? Didn't think so. You don't work for an airline. You work for a contractor. You fly someone else's code, be it DL, or CO, or UA, or whatever, but certainly not your own. Comparing your company to airlines like AAI, Frontier, or JetBlue is absurd.

Your union reps can't bargain much for you if mainline flying keeps getting outsourced and more and more RFPs are issued for that flying. You don't seem to understand just how bad the situation is. When you don't fly your own flying, you are dependent on someone else to give you their flying. That means that they can put all kinds of stipulations on it, such as "nothing higher than industry-average pay rates." You don't fit the stipulations? Then someone who's a lower bidder will get that RFP. Then your management will come to you demanding concessions so you can get awarded the next RFP. If you don't agree? They'll just take you into bankruptcy to void your contract and force the concessions out of you to get that next RFP.

You seem to be very naive about how this process is working now. You should be in favor of keeping as much flying as possible at the mainline level so you still have a decent career to look forward to.

And by the way, I do love to fly, but I do this job primarily for the money. That's why it's called a job.

I am curious to know where you got the CL-65 rating from? Which Regional did you work for prior to your current company? I am cheering Management along you say, HMMMMMMMM No, I am just stating facts, it is what it is and it's just business. Pilots can be just as greedy a management. Hence why regionals keep flying bigger and bigger jets. Mainline pilots keep turning down flying because they are too good to fly a smaller jet. Yes Money has allot to do with that but
if it means loosing my Job at Delta, or whom ever,for flying an 190/195 for a little less money then I would gladly take the pay cut to stay at Delta then start all over somewhere else.

Union Reps can't bargain for us, sure they can it takes time and allot of aggravation but that's the world of negotiation.

I don't fly for an airline, We may not have our own "Brand" name "Yet" but, last time I checked I sign a release, fly under 121 regs and do the same job you do just a different airplane. Seems to be an airline to me.

Naive about how the process is working you say. You can't accept the fact that the industry is changing and will be for quite sometime. Your living in the past and this is the future. The facts are the facts and you can't change them. Forgive me for being a realist but these are the facts. You came from a regional and are now flying for your own Brand and that's great if that is your wish.

I sincerely hope you guys get bigger and pick up some slack where the legacy carriers are lacking. In my opinion we need some fresh blood in the industry. Before all this is done there will be 1 or 2 less legacy carriers flying the sky's. It's all cyclical just any other business. Industries change, and ours happens to be changing.

 

[Tarzan]

who would win in a fight? a grilled cheese or a taco?

Well, the taco is a little more saucy so I'll have to take that side.

You may now return to regularly scheduled, showering piss upon one another.

 

[CFI2766]

I sincerely hope you guys get bigger and pick up some slack where the legacy carriers are lacking. In my opinion we need some fresh blood in the industry. Before all this is done there will be 1 or 2 less legacy carriers flying the sky's. It's all cyclical just any other business. Industries change, and ours happens to be changing.[/quote]


I was kinda with you until this gibberish. We, as pilots, sure as he!! do not need some 'fresh blood' in the industry. Would you rather fly for Delta's pay scale, or Virgin's?

I suspect that PCL128 was mighty thankful for his RJ job while he was building the hours necessary to get to where he is at now. That's allright; it's what we have to do.

That being said, it sure does seem like PCL128 has his and wants to close the door behind him.

Forgot to add: Resuming Golden Shower....

 

[xjlifer]

I am curious to know where you got the CL-65 rating from? Which Regional did you work for prior to your current company? I am cheering Management along you say, HMMMMMMMM No, I am just stating facts, it is what it is and it's just business. Pilots can be just as greedy a management. Hence why regionals keep flying bigger and bigger jets. Mainline pilots keep turning down flying because they are too good to fly a smaller jet. Yes Money has allot to do with that but
if it means loosing my Job at Delta, or whom ever,for flying an 190/195 for a little less money then I would gladly take the pay cut to stay at Delta then start all over somewhere else.

Union Reps can't bargain for us, sure they can it takes time and allot of aggravation but that's the world of negotiation.

I don't fly for an airline, We may not have our own "Brand" name "Yet" but, last time I checked I sign a release, fly under 121 regs and do the same job you do just a different airplane. Seems to be an airline to me.

Naive about how the process is working you say. You can't accept the fact that the industry is changing and will be for quite sometime. Your living in the past and this is the future. The facts are the facts and you can't change them. Forgive me for being a realist but these are the facts. You came from a regional and are now flying for your own Brand and that's great if that is your wish.

I sincerely hope you guys get bigger and pick up some slack where the legacy carriers are lacking. In my opinion we need some fresh blood in the industry. Before all this is done there will be 1 or 2 less legacy carriers flying the sky's. It's all cyclical just any other business. Industries change, and ours happens to be changing.

Not sure of the exact time line but it goes something like this:

1. Buy your first airline job. Pay for some beech t-prop time with Gulf stream airlines.

2. Get a job with 9E and then see the light.

3. Leave for another airline and get on a soap box.

The thing is Airline Driver has it right. Market forces will determine what happens. Sure those forces get a little tweaked with crooked managment and antiquated laws. But change is here.

The whole whose flying is it...what type of engine does it have discussion ...is ridiculous. The wallmartization of our profession began with deregulation and it has not hit the bottom yet.

The best bet is to sock away as much as you can...watch the show...and hug your kids at night.

 

[PCL_128]

I suspect that PCL128 was mighty thankful for his RJ job while he was building the hours necessary to get to where he is at now.

If you go back and look at my posts from years ago, you'll see that my opinion has always been the same: RJs at the regionals are bad for this profession. That's nothing against the pilots flying them, but if you're a regional pilot that wants scope relief to get bigger and bigger RJs, then you're part of the problem.

 

[Airline Driver]

If you go back and look at my posts from years ago, you'll see that my opinion has always been the same: RJs at the regionals are bad for this profession. That's nothing against the pilots flying them, but if you're a regional pilot that wants scope relief to get bigger and bigger RJs, then you're part of the problem.

This has nothing to do with this thred and is completely off the topic but I do have a question on how to do something.. I noticed that you and other people on this chat room are able to highlight and quote more than one quote from another person in your reply. How do you do that, is it a cut and paste kind of thing or how exactly is it done?? I have always wanted to learn..

Now Going back to our previous discussions, I do respect your opinion!!

Thanks

 

[PCL_128]

This has nothing to do with this thred and is completely off the topic but I do have a question on how to do something.. I noticed that you and other people on this chat room are able to highlight and quote more than one quote from another person in your reply. How do you do that, is it a cut and paste kind of thing or how exactly is it done?? I have always wanted to learn..

You just have to copy and past the "quote" tags that you see when you're typing in the reply. Every quote has to have the beginning and end quote brackets.

 

[Sedona16]

I agree with Fins. The president of Delta recently responded with this in relation to a Q and A:

Angela (Nov 13, 2007 1:33:23 PM)
"Have we considered replacing some of the extremely crowded RJs with larger Delta aircraft in any markets?
Ed Bastian (Nov 13, 2007 1:35:48 PM)
We have too many small aircraft flying in the system, particularly at these fuel prices. We have reduced and will continue to reduce 50 seat flying. The replacement for that will be 76 seaters as well as mainline aircraft. We expect to put into service approximately 25 new or slightly-used aircraft into mainline service in 2008."

100 seaters will be flown by mainline.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Mesaba is flying the CRJ-900, and Compass the ERJ-175?, both configured with two classes of service and 74 seats.

The ERJ 170/195 is a MUCH nicer aircraft for PAX than the CRJ-900.

There are 3 more big contenders in the 100 seat class:
Bombardier is coming out with their "C" aircraft-due about 2012
Boeing is designing a brand new 100-seat class aircraft-due after the "C" comes out.
Sukhoi just came out with the Superjet 100, seating 80-100 PAX.

cliff
SHV

 

[A350]

PCL:

It is reassuring to the rest of us that because you are out of the regionals now that you object to the outsourcing of the mainline jobs.

Do you often see the error of your ways AFTER you have benefitted from it?

A350

 

[Wiggums]

Do you often see the error of your ways AFTER you have benefitted(sic) from it?

A350

Actually PCL was very vocal that RJ were taking mainline jobs WHILE he was flying them. You can search back and find it if you like.

I would argue that current and past RJ pilots DID NOT benefit from the relaxing of scope. If the majors wanted those jets then they should have been flown by major pilots. The same amount of jobs would have been created just at a different level. Then PCL and others could have gone directly from the 1900 or Saab 340 to the majors.

I believe that all flying on a code should be flown by one pilot group. I'm sorry that some guys at Delta thought their squadron buddies were too good to start in a small jet or ATR but look at the problems it's caused.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

Soooooooooooooooo damnn those old delta pilots for the problems we are in now!

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

Actually PCL was very vocal that RJ were taking mainline jobs WHILE he was flying them. You can search back and find it if you like.

I would argue that current and past RJ pilots DID NOT benefit from the relaxing of scope. If the majors wanted those jets then they should have been flown by major pilots. The same amount of jobs would have been created just at a different level. Then PCL and others could have gone directly from the 1900 or Saab 340 to the majors.

I believe that all flying on a code should be flown by one pilot group. I'm sorry that some guys at Delta thought their squadron buddies were too good to start in a small jet or ATR but look at the problems it's caused.

Well said and you get the point being made that SO many people on here seem to be missing.

 

[PCL_128]

Actually PCL was very vocal that RJ were taking mainline jobs WHILE he was flying them. You can search back and find it if you like.

I would argue that current and past RJ pilots DID NOT benefit from the relaxing of scope. If the majors wanted those jets then they should have been flown by major pilots. The same amount of jobs would have been created just at a different level. Then PCL and others could have gone directly from the 1900 or Saab 340 to the majors.

I believe that all flying on a code should be flown by one pilot group. I'm sorry that some guys at Delta thought their squadron buddies were too good to start in a small jet or ATR but look at the problems it's caused.

Thanks, Wiggums. We may not agree on economics, but at least we see eye to eye on this.

 

[A350]

OK, so he was vocal about it...that doesn't amout to a hill of s%^&....it didn't stop him from DOING it, did it?

A350

 

[PCL_128]

OK, so he was vocal about it...that doesn't amout to a hill of s%^&....it didn't stop him from DOING it, did it?

A350

Of course not, and I don't expect anyone else not to do it, either. It's the way you get started in this business. If you want to make it to a career airline, you pretty much have to spend some time at the regionals. There's nothing wrong with that. What's wrong is having wet dreams about getting bigger and bigger airplanes while mainline downsizes.

 

[A350]

PCL:

We agree totally on that....but you made a choice to do it and in the end it didn't help your fellow professionals.....

No difference between this and the other occurrences in the business.....Freedom, Go-Jet, other non-union carriers. Choices made that didn't help someone else out but nonetheless helped some make a career out of nothing.

So its just business, right?

A350

 

[PCL_128]

We've been over this several times before on different threads. You know as well as everyone else that there's no comparison. GoJet and the like were created with the express purpose of screwing over union pilots by stealing their flying. The flying that legitimate regionals do is approved by the scope clauses of the mainline partners. Pretty simple, really.