Who in the heck is REPUBLIC!!!

[jobear]

Man I felt that one in STL....

 

[I.P. Freley]

Sure the $22 an hour is a lot better than the $8 they were making as a flight instructor, but come on CHQ its time to get real.

...not to mention someone is conveniently using $22/hr as the FO rate, which is of course only for the first year. A first year FO at Comair is totally blowing them away with, uhhh, $23/hr.

The difference is far more dramatic for subsequent years, but since SOMEONE needed to trot out $22/hr like it's an insult, I'd like to understand how $23/hr is something to crow about...??

I'm even going to give you the benefit of the doubt on the $43/hr as an FO thing, but only if you're referring to 3rd yr. pay on the 70-seater, rounded up. Still not much to crow about, but at least it's easier to understand than if you're making those bux on a 50-seater. Of course most 3rd-year FO's at CHQ aren't FO's at all, they're Captains, in which case they're making from $10-20/hr more than you are.

 

[aeronautic1]

cmrflyer

Now don't forget, when you pull on the stick, the houses get smaller. Push on the stick and they get bigger.

Me- First year F/O $45K plus per diem. Upgrade 1 year.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Me- First year F/O, $12,499/hr, upgrade 1 week.

 

[cmrflyer]

$1.75 an hour perdiem, do your captain make that, 18 days off a month, do your captains get that, cancelation pay do your captains get that, thats right boys, i'm really upset, 100% deadhead pay, do your captains get that.

Yes i might speak sh!t, but that is because i'm speaking about sh!t.

 

[RP170]

$1.75 an hour perdiem, do your captain make that, 18 days off a month, do your captains get that, cancelation pay do your captains get that, thats right boys, i'm really upset, 100% deadhead pay, do your captains get that.

Yes i might speak sh!t, but that is because i'm speaking about sh!t.

So what, our per diem is a $1.50/hr and yes a good majority of our captains and even JUNIOR FO's get lines with up to 18 days off per month. Our FO's don't wait for 8-10 years to upgrade either. Another 50 new airplanes within the next year and we didn't have to sell ourselves out and take a pay freeze for them either. That's better than anything your contract has in it....period. Sounds like someone is a bit upset and jealous that CHQ is getting 170 flying for Delta.

 

[I.P. Freley]

$1.75 an hour perdiem, do your captain make that, 18 days off a month, do your captains get that, cancelation pay do your captains get that, thats right boys, i'm really upset, 100% deadhead pay, do your captains get that.

Yes i might speak sh!t, but that is because i'm speaking about sh!t.

I don't know, they're not "my" captains... Enjoy your cancellation pay and your 100% dh pay, I'm sure that adds up to an extra $10-20k/yr, right? It must, since you make $40-50/mo more in per diem... Surely that adds up to ten grand a year? Don't worry, the RAH boys will likely be happy to know that they can deduct the shortfall in per diem on their taxes come next April. More likely they're happy to know that they aren't surrounded by a bunch of finger-pointing rats like the unfortunate captains that get to fly with YOU... Unless you get the ones that agree with you, in which case you can both get your jollies accusing everyone else of bringing down the profession while you enjoy your pay freeze, which is of course CHQ's fault.

At least you're correct about speaking about poo poo, because that's what fills the cavity in your head normally taken up by gray matter. Surely that poo poo doesn't stink, because you work for Comair... Nice to see that there are still enough of your kind at Comair to perpetuate that mindset. We've all seen your kind, and it's unfortunate because there are so many quality people at Comair that have to live with you making them look bad.

Now get outta the bar and go to work. Better still, just go to work and do your job without feeling it necessary to criticize your competition... Be happy that you don't have to work for what you consider slave wages at CHQ and be happy with your OWN paycheck every other week. You may find that life is a little more enjoyable that way.

But I doubt it, I gather you get off on throwing stones.

Have a nice life anyway, you're at least good for some comical eye-rolling.

 

[OldManPilot]

$1.75 an hour perdiem, do your captain make that, 18 days off a month, do your captains get that, cancelation pay do your captains get that, thats right boys, i'm really upset, 100% deadhead pay, do your captains get that.

Yes i might speak sh!t, but that is because i'm speaking about sh!t.

1. Per diem = increase in OCT
2. 17 days off this month
3. with 96% completion (which i might add we recieve 90+% of all months) remember we complete flights not cancel them..
4. 75% deadhead...
plus let me add a few things

1. 1 1/2 - 2 yrs for upgrade.
2. Bases in many cities (not stuck in CVG) ohhh wait.. you just took pay freezes for more bases... sorry!
3. Company Diversity - not all eggs (flying) in one basket (Delta)
4. Not the threat of being sold.. ( and no I don't find this one to be amusing)
5. Growth, Growth, Growth
6. Not ALPA (this one I am thankful for)
7. 3 yr. contract

I'm sure you get the idea

Like it was said earlier... I find most of your pilots to be very friendly and hospitable, it's only jerks like you that perpetuate the Nasty Comair Pilot or NCP attitude!

 

[FurloughedAgain]

"1 1/2 - 2 yrs for upgrade."

Are you really sure that you can take this one to the bank? It is fortunate that some of your pilots are enjoying such a quick upgrade right now, but that can't last forever...

 

[aewanabe]

"1 1/2 - 2 yrs for upgrade."

Are you really sure that you can take this one to the bank? It is fortunate that some of your pilots are enjoying such a quick upgrade right now, but that can't last forever...

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly with this. It will not last for ever; I wish guys would stop crowing about it. Eventually the music IS gonna stop, and our job next contract is to make sure CHQ is a livable place for everyone here, in every seat.

PS I've been saying this for the last two years, long before I upgraded.

 

[Flash]

Eventually the music IS gonna stop, and our job next contract is to make sure CHQ is a livable place for everyone here, in every seat.
Ideally this is a great mindset, obviously everyone wants the next contract to be the "one." The reality is that by the time the next contract rolls around, the mainline partner will be either shopping around again for the low bidder or asking the regional for relief which translates into what you have now will probably be about it.

 

[P38JLightning]

selling out FO pay for growth (pay for upgrade)

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly with this. It will not last for ever; I wish guys would stop crowing about it. Eventually the music IS gonna stop, and our job next contract is to make sure CHQ is a livable place for everyone here, in every seat.

PS I've been saying this for the last two years, long before I upgraded.

Yeah but did you vote for your current book or not? Even if you were enlightened enough not to, most did. Those who fought in recent history in the regional sector to help the profession (not limited by any means to Comair either) have a problem with that. Your management and union leadership at numerous roadshows told your pilot group if Comair didn't sign Randy's pay cut offer and you signed this contract you would get so much DCI growth it would blow your minds and everyone on property that day would see a 1.5 year upgrade or less, your collective pilot group creamed themselves and went for it. They made a deal with the devil and lucky for them the devil paid up this time.

This wasn't about staying alive, or feeding your family, or making your mortgage or saving your company. Chautauqua was incredibly profitable at the time and did not need such a generous, pro management contract. Your pilot group smelled upgrade and that's all that mattered. Comair fought not only for one of the top contracts this sector of the airline industry had ever had, but long before that, we fought to put an end to substandard FO pay. FO's make 60% Captain's pay just like the majors of olde. We fought to carry that over in our current book, and refused numerous company offers to create a pay for upgrade B scale. Even the pay freeze gave special exception to FO's, making sure they got second year pay on their one year anneversarry even though everyone else won't get a raise. We made sure the pay freeze won't affect a new hire at all, even though those of us already here will take a sizeable hit.

Immagine how much "bargaining credit" we could have gotten by sticking them at first year pay for 2 years. Immagine how much growth we could have bought. And for what its worth, no CHQ pilot has the moral authority to complain about our pay freeze. That right is reserved exclusively for 39% of us at Comair who voted against it, plus everyone at ASA and Horizon and maybe, depending on profit sharing and other things, Xpress-Jet. That's it.

Believe it or not, you are not the only group of aviators who figured out that captains make more than FO's, so its desireable to make captain sooner. You just led the modern era charge to sell out FO rates to buy your upgrade and undercut others to get it if necessary (and it was necessary) not only for the raise but for the resume time as well. By the way, congratulations on keeping your contract down to only 3 years ammendable date. When everyone is fighting to raise the bar, that's an accomplishment.

When you signed your current book however, we as an industry were on the leading edge of the new race to the bottom by very profitable carriers just to get growth, but you were also hot on the heels of a time when everyone fought when it was their turn to help jack up the house. When your current book is expired and you're back in negotiations, good luck trying to shore up those FO rates. You will always have 50% of your pilot group who will do anything for an upgrade (that's why they came there in the first place) and you will have to be "competitive" in the pilot bidding price war not only to get any growth, but to keep what you have. The last year of your contract could very well be your high water mark. That is, unless you are willing to sacrifice growth, which you clearly will not be.

 

[aewanabe]

Yeah but did you vote for your current book or not? Even if you were enlightened enough not to, most did. Those who fought in recent history in the regional sector to help the profession (not limited by any means to Comair either) have a problem with that. Your management and union leadership at numerous roadshows told your pilot group if Comair didn't sign Randy's pay cut offer and you signed this contract you would get so much DCI growth it would blow your minds and everyone on property that day would see a 1.5 year upgrade or less, your collective pilot group creamed themselves and went for it. They made a deal with the devil and lucky for them the devil paid up this time.

In short, yes I did vote for the current book. I think we've had this discussion before; I voted for it not for growth but to keep RAH flying on my seniority list. I'm not sure where you guys keep getting the "sign this and you'll get Comair's flying" road show information. The road show I went to talked a lot more about how quickly the company was moving towards starting the original incarnation of Republic Airline, which was to be a non-union 145 operator under J4J, flying at less than our LAST book rates. Don't have my copy of the old contract available, but I distinctly remember that second year FO pay was about 24 an hour.

Also, to put a perspective on our "phenomenal" DCI growth. The company had 15 DL 145s and 15 135s on property when we signed this contract. We now stand at a whopping 22 145s and 15 135s. Net gain of 7 airframes. Future 37/50-seat options have ALL been cancelled. In addition the DL 170 flying is 16 airplanes. So all told we have a growth of 23 airplanes on the DL side, 16 of which aren't even on the property yet.

As to the Comair pay freezes, I've never been one of the guys who criticized y'all for that; I do think, however that since you did what you felt you had to, you need to lay off us. Definite case of "pot, meet kettle".

Lastly about our payrates: I've been on the record as saying we got hoodwinked on the FO side. We bought into needing a 35/hour cap because of the mass influx of J4J FOs who would be topped out. Oops. I'm not opposed to a blended pay rate for FOs, because otherwise guys who hired into the 145 side would be screwed through no fault of their own. Unlike the CRJ 200/700 there is no "differences" training between the 145/170 and the company will likely NEVER train FOs from one to the other. I strongly believe, however, that the blended rates need to be much higher for the FO side next time around. Last contract we spent our negotiating capital on keeping RAH flying on our list, next one we're in a much stronger position to strengthen pay rates. Just my opinion.

 

[nimtz]

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly with this. It will not last for ever; I wish guys would stop crowing about it. Eventually the music IS gonna stop, and our job next contract is to make sure CHQ is a livable place for everyone here, in every seat.

PS I've been saying this for the last two years, long before I upgraded.

I wish you guys luck next time around. However, it sure seems like it will be an uphill climb. With all these certificates, intergrations, and fast upgrades it sure seems like the pilot group is disorganized. Let's face it Bedford is a lighter shade of Orenstien, so there is serious work ahead. Hope you have some strong leaders that emerge to become negotiators.

Make no mistake about it some serious saber rattling will be necessary if the CHQ group is to come even close to earning what they deserve. You guys are becoming a leading operator of 70 seat+, so it will be largely up to you to turn the negative around. I'm pulling for you guys to make some improvements, because every time I see a E170 I fear for the future of this profession.

 

[aewanabe]

Wholeheartedly agree. Right now the pilot group IS disorganized, and there are guys who've been on the property for 15 months going to 170 Captain school. It's gonna take a lot of work to get the whole group moving in the right direction. We've got some really strong leaders in the pilot group who've seen the airline grow from BE-99s to where it is today, plus a bunch of us who realize that every new 170 here really is one less DC9 or F100 type airframe at a major. I hope those of us that realize it will be enough.

The "good" news is in these prosperous times management has been going out of the way to screw guys in everything from scheduling to pay. I think those moves are going to be more valuable in getting our group organized than anything else.