who can tell me some info on airmanflightschool

3

350DRIVER

I did both my CFI/II training with Airman quite some time ago and it is the best set-up and program that is out there in my opinion that will get you done the fastest. I looked into the different schools (AF, ATP, FSI, etc) and the Airman route was the best out of any of them in my opinion. Be prepared to study, put in the time, and get as far ahead as you can. They will not hold your hand nor will they spoon feed you the information. You will be responsible to come to class prepared which in reality means putting in a lot of self study time in on your own. Even though it has been awhile since I attended the school not much at all has changed, I still keep in contact with recent grads of the program and most have been pleased to the utmost.

Before one poster chimes in I suggest the following> If they get any indication that you are "flexible" and that you are not binded for time then you may not get the I/II course done as quickly as others. Make it known to them that you are binded for time and get on them and they will get you in and out of there quickly, money in the bank. I didn't have any problem nor did anyone else in my class... Stay on the ball, pester them, etc, do whatever it takes not to have to stay out there longer than you have to and all will be fine. Sometimes unfortunately you have to be a pain in the @ss and in reality you are the "customer".

As far as the writtens are concerned, some folks did have them done (FOI/CFI/II) but others didn't. I waited until I had gotten there due to the simple fact that all writtens were included in the price of the course so my thought process was "why" waste the additional money at $60-$80 bucks a written considering you need to take the FOI,CFI,CFII writtens. Just study for them so you can take them asap once you arrive in Norman. This is somewhat of a "firehose" training course so you don't want to wait until you get there to begin studying them, you will have plenty of other things to study. If you decide to go there then good luck to you, best I/II course out there in my opinion.


Some things have changed but those changes have been very minor from those who I have spoken with. I can only think of one guy who I recommended to go that wasn't overly pleased, all others got what was promised and if I had to do it all again I would have done exactly the same thing. He only went in there with a private so your situation should be drastically different.
pm me for any details or additional questions that you may have and also do a board seach on "AIRMAN FLIGHT SCHOOL", I have posted much on the subject over the past few years.



 

minitour

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I attended for the "upgrade" course (Instrument - CFII). Looking back, I would have gone to ATPs probably. In the long run (and it was a long run) it would have cost less and I would have gotten 190 ME PIC...and an MEI (something I didn't get at AFS).

What I would recommend...go out and visit a few students (not staff) before you make your decision. I know more than a few people that had the same experience I had that would be more than happy to let you know what life is like out there.

Yes, their program says "6 months"...that's not reality. Had it not been for a "different" situation, I would have been there 8 or 9 instead of 7. I do know there are quite a few changes going on out there. I also know their Duchess (twin) was/is(?) down for about 3-4 weeks for mx. That's the second time in the past 4 or so months its been down that long. Also, they've been having mx problems with the RGs (makes commercial and CFI training go very slow).

Would I recommend it? No. I'd look into ATPs where at least you can get some ME time and if you go the "90 day" course it will be the same price if not cheaper in the long run.

If you have any questions, drop me a PM and I'll be more than happy to fill you in on what's going out there since I stay in close contact with a few of the current students as well as students that attended with myself.

-mini
 

comander

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thank you both very much for your responses.:) :) great help this site is. thanks once again.
 

PropsR4Boats

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They trained one of the guys that had something to do with 9/11.
 

MFRskyknight

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comander said:
check the webpage and tell me your coments about this school, I think I might go there,the price seems more or less fair what do u ppl think? http://www.airmanflightschool.com/
comander,

I just finished my PPL at Airman and have "taken the plunge," as it were, for their upgrade course. I start my Instrument in about two weeks. 350 and minitour both make very good points. The only thing you'll get spoonfed to you here is sugarcoated promises about your completion time. As for the mx issues, I don't know as much, but I do remember the Duchess being down for something like 2 weeks around the end of June. I had a very devoted CFI who got me through me through my Private in 2 months flat, but come armed with a working basic knowledge and be prepared to STUDY, because the groundschool is pretty dry and any one-on-one you get from your CFI who has God-knows-how-many students will most likely go by lightning-fast. For example, I think I spend about 5 minutes with mine going over the mx books/AD's, etc, the day before my oral, which left me to research and fill in all the blanks on my own.

Other than that, I can't stress enough how important it is to talk to other students, maybe even some CFIs if you have your eyes on a future job there. And search more on this board for it, I know there's some good chunks of info out there. If you need any more help, send me a PM and I'd be happy to answer questions or show you around the place if you decide to come check it out. Good luck!

MFR
 
3

350DRIVER

comander said:
thank you both very much for your responses.:) :) great help this site is. thanks once again.
You are more than welcome. . Do some research, I was not the least bit pleased with ATP's when I researched them. 190 hours of multi at a low total time will mean very little if anything to you, gotta love the way they market this program. If you give ATP's close to $40,000 then you may need a reality check. . I would not even contemplate this if I were you and would highly suggest that you do your research prior to giving up this kind of cash. It is not "cheaper" than Airman and a lot of what they sell off is nothing more than propaganda. . If you truly want a "fast track" to the airlines then look into the Mesa Airlines Pilot Development Program, you can't even compare the two..

http://www.atpflightschool.com/airline_training_programs/airline_career_pilot_program/index.html

Think twice before you throw away this type of money for a program like this one.

MFR, I wish you much luck on the completion of your tickets out at Airman.
 

User546

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350DRIVER said:
190 hours of multi at a low total time will mean very little if anything to you, gotta love the way they market this program.
Thats a valid point, BUT... that multi time never gets taken away from you, and once you get your Total Time built up, your sitting good with that 200 multi. If you want to go to any regional, or cargo outfit, you'll easily have the mins met.

Reality of training now days is that the only multi that most students get is the multi time received during their multi-initial, maybe an addon, and then there MEI. Typically 30-40 hours max.

If your a CFI, they typically don't put you into a MEI position right away. That typically goes on seniority, and it can literally be months or years before you get that privelage. Then some smaller schools have so few Multi students, that even once you are teaching as a MEI, that it could still take you months to build suitable multi time. You will have probably easily have built up your single-engine (total time) up enough to be competitive at that point if you have the 200 multi.

Just something to chew on.

And I've personally visited Airman with a student of mine (Minitour hooked us up - thanks again!) and after spending an hour or so talking to the lady and touring the facilities, the place left a lot to be desired, and I personally would not recommend it on many levels (from morale, to quality of airplane, to maintenance).
 
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minitour

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FWIW:
The price I was quoted at AFS for the "Upgrade course" was $23,995...not sure if its gone up since or not.

I ended up $42,000 in debt....with 3.9 hours of ME time.

I'd still recommend ATP...but thats JMHO

-mini

*edit*

I can't really say I'd recommend ATP...but I would not recommend AFS. I talked today with two of my friends who are still in the ME program and also still waiting for their CFII check rides. They haven't flown in two weeks and 8 days respectively...

...if that helps any
 

100LL... Again!

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The two CFIs that I worked with from Airman did not know their a$$ from a hole on the ground.

If you are already a motivated learner and plan to do LOTS and LOTS of self study to fill in the gaps, then Airman is fine.

If you plan to blast through their courses and get the CFI in minimum time, you will be an ignorant and possibly incompetent pilot.

Sad. But true. Certificate mills are a blight on the profession. They should all be shut down.
 
3

350DRIVER

You are always going to have a few or hear about a few bad experiences from some out there no matter what the school. I still to this day recommend Airman and will continue to do so for those who ask and seek for my opinion(s) and advice, one or two bad experiences is not the norm and should not be considered as such with regards to Airman. GA, thanks for the pm, 2.5 weeks for the course is what you were told and they came through. The negative vibes are all across the board no matter what the flight school so I accept the above poster's remarks and comments (minitour's) even though I disagree with many points that he has brought to light during his posts on this subject.

100LL, very good points and I agree with you for the most part. Those seeking an easy way out usually will be "caught" and stopped dead in their tracks at some point down the line during an interview process and/or simulator evaluation. One can only slip through the cracks for so long before the past truly catches up with them. It is just a matter of time before a reality check sets in and they then are stuck with pondering why they didn't get that job to fly that shiny new RJ. I do not however feel as if Airman is or was at any point a "Certificate mill".

To the original poster, do your research and talk to current students and current instructors that are currently out there to get the best possible information and form your own opinion and decision(s) from that information which you are able to obtain.

I personally would not waste $40,000 out at ATP for some "fast track" airline gig. Many of the CFI's there are only there for a limited period of time while they "build" time to move on asap.

If you decide against Airman then I highly suggest looking into the Mesa program which is the best out there in my opinion.
 

minitour

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I'll agree with one thing that 350 said about Airman. It's no certificate mill. I personally saw people washed out of the Instrument Rating class 2 and 3 times. While they won't give the certificates to you if you aren't prepared and don't know your stuff, they will work with you to get you waht you need. Most of the problems come from students that don't want to work and don't want to study. The guys that spent every night out at the clubs with the OU chicks were the ones struggling and washing out of classes.

However, disagree with my statements if you will...they are all fact. You can't argue with facts. I realize that lots of students go through there and probably lots of them go through in the time "promised"...but take a look at your contract if you go there before you sign. If I had done that, I would have walked...no, ran then and there.

Also, be careful of being a pain in the @ss. I raised a fit because I hadn't had my stage check for stg 1 commercial (after a week) and didn't fly for another month. Its almost like getting penalty vectors for calling the controller a biatch with a stuck mike...just stuff that you don't want to happen.

I also agree with 100LL. There are/were several Airman CFIs that I refused to fly with after 10 minutes of conversation with them. They really don't "know their ass from a hole on the ground".

A few positives I'll say, since I've got a lot of negatives.

The chief pilot and Director of Operations are great guys. Both very fair and EXTREMELY knowledgable. If you go there and have any problems, make your first step to both of them, not the people you're "supposed to" talk to...

Good luck...let us know what you decide.

-mini
 

100LL... Again!

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350DRIVER said:
100LL, very good points and I agree with you for the most part. Those seeking an easy way out usually will be "caught" and stopped dead in their tracks at some point down the line during an interview process and/or simulator evaluation. One can only slip through the cracks for so long before the past truly catches up with them.
I would REALLY like to believe you, but you must understand my skepticism. In some cases, the 'catching up' occurs at the worst possible time with innocent lives in the back. What if 3701 had been a revenue flight?

I think that the skill and knowledge bar has been lowered too far and 'training for the checkride' occurs at every level of the profession now.

I have seen way to many people at one of my previous 121 jobs that really underwhelmed me.
 

BushwickBill

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If your a CFI, they typically don't put you into a MEI position right away. That typically goes on seniority, and it can literally be months or years before you get that privelage. Then some smaller schools have so few Multi students, that even once you are teaching as a MEI, that it could still take you months to build suitable multi time. You will have probably easily have built up your single-engine (total time) up enough to be competitive at that point if you have the 200 multi
See the multi time post.
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=58081

ATP wouldn't be bad if you get that much multi time. At least your getting something. Just having your CMEI doesn't mean anything and most people don't care how you got your ratings as long as you have your minimum time.

When I got my ASES rating the instructor said "you dont know how to fly seaplanes, you have a license to learn". It doesn't matter where you go to school as long as you work hard a pay attention you'll be fine. If you sit around and play playstation you'll be hosed.

The hard part isn't getting your ratings its not starving to death as a CFI.
 

GAcfi

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Airman

Hello I sent this as a PM to "commander" who was requesting information on Airman. I thought I should post so all could see in case someone was trying to make a decision. I have used this board many times for advice, and besides some real a&*holes, most people are very helpful.

I'm responding to your question regarding airman flight school. I attended airman in April for the CFI/CFII course. I also talked to 350driver, because he attended airman several years ago.

I wanted to let you know my experience at airman so it may help with your recommendations of the school. I did very well there, and would do it again only if I were in the same situation, but it was not looking good for a lot of people while I was there. I hope Brenda and the others can turn it around.

I was current and had started my CFI training with a local CFI before I decided to go to Airman. I came in and finished both in 2 1/2 weeks. However, I'm not the norm. I was passing up people that had started their CFI's two sessions before me. A lot of your success will be on your ability to study on your own, be prepared before you start, and find a study group (you will have to start one because a lot of people there don't have the initiative).

The instructors are overworked and most don't care about your success (a few do, and are doing the best they can). The school changed management when I was there and this caused some concerns. The instructors didn't get paid one day and stuff like that worries me (they were paid a few days later). The planes are junk. They are in sad condition. The dutchess was their only multi and it was in the shop a lot. Also, they only have two RG's and they were down most of the time I was there. That is when my training slowed down, when I needed the RG. I finished the CFII (they do the instrument first) in one week. However, if the school can stay afloat, it will be good in the long run. Management has a lot of dreams for the school if they can get the money.

I know a lot of people that left without ratings because they got tired of sitting around in a hotel room not flying. There was one guy that I keep in touch with that needed his commercial, CFI, CFII. He was there for three months, got the Commercial, and CFII, but never the CFI. He left and went somewhere else.

I can't really complain but as i said only about 5% of the guys get out in the time I did. I Just came prepared, studied all the time, and bugged the crap out of the instructors that I needed to fly and get out! IF you let them run your schedule, you will be there forever.

I went to ATP for the multi. It was done pretty well. I"m not sure about doing a direct track with ATP. Most of their instructors are all very young and inexperienced (before anyone flames me, noticed I said most not all, some of there instructors are good). Express Jet takes them at 700 hours so they are not hanging around instructing very long.

I hope this helps. I would be cautious of Airman right now, however if you decide to go, stay on them about flying, study your butt off before you go, and if the equipment doesn't break, you could get out in the quoted amount of time. But you may also loose your money if they go under. Do a search on "Airman Flight School" you will get lots of information. Hope this helps.
 
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comander

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thank you all for your valuable info. I apreciate it very much.
 

MFRskyknight

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gordon24 said:
I wish all you jerk-offs that fly out of norman would learn to speak english. I had to take a king air in there late one evening and it sounded like the darn mexican airforce on the ctaf.
GAcfi said:
...and besides some real a&*holes...
Speak of the devils....

About 1 out of every 2 students at Airman, if not more, is from outside the country. While that doesn't bother me per se, all the heavy accents on the frequency do get confusing. If anything I just remain more alert when I'm in the vicinity of the airport, since I assume that ATC understands that gobbledegook as good or worse than I do. Seems like once or twice I've heard Tower say something to the effect of, "Uhm, okay Cessna 954, you do that," just for the sake of not cluttering up the radio with asking them to repeat themselves. I don't know much about the recent management change, but I went up there today to sign my life away for the upgrade course, and I can report that they have new tables and cushy yellow chairs in the hallway and debriefing room. Ooh la la....

MFR
 

minitour

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MFRskyknight said:
...I assume that ATC understands that gobbledegook as good or worse than I do. ...
MFR
I had a hard time understanding the one controller....man...what a pain! I bet you know which one I'm talking about.

-mini
 

NYCPilot

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Last year I went down to Airman for my CFI/II and received both in exactly 3 weeks as promised. Before going down there I had all of my written exams passed (FOI, CFI, CFII, AGI and IGI) and prepared lesson plans for every maneuver for the Private, Commercial and Instrument rating. It seems that this wasn't at all necessary as you only need to have one for what you will be asked to teach. I also did most of my studying before going down there. My suggestion is to read from cover to cover the FAA's "Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge," "Instrument Flying Handbook" and the "Aviation Instructor Handbook." All three are great sources of information and stuff that WILL be asked during your oral. The better prepared you are, the quicker and easier your time there will be, especially if you intend on getting out of there on schedule.

Definitely know the FOI stuff inside and out. YOU WILL be asked everything from that reference material. Agreeably, the book seems like a lot to digest, but a helpful resource guide to understanding this material in a more concise way would be to supplement it with Gleim’s “Flight Instructor Flight Manual.”

When I was down there last summer, Dale Davis was the ground instructor who goes over most of the material that will be covered in the CFI/II course. It would be wise to listen up on all the topics he discusses and take notes, as most of what he mentions will be asked on the exam. Dale is an immensely knowledgeable person and also the Director of Operations at Airman too. Nice guy I might add and helpful.

They are a very busy flight school and so you should stay on top of your instructor in terms of making sure you are on the schedule for the next day. Try to fly as often as possible, even twice a day if the instructor is available, nights too, because there will be days when a plane gets taken off line for a myriad of reasons. It makes sense to get those requisite 15 hrs. of instrument time you’re required in a 141. Luckily, I got to shoot a few approaches down to minimums at OKC and OUN in actual. I also flew my first backcourse ever and in IMC too. A tip I learned from my instructor was to always remember that you are the needle. Easy way to know which way to correct back.

Another thing I did before heading out to Airman was to review the OKC and OUN approach charts and have frequencies, MAP, etc. memorized. It makes it that much easier to get through the program quicker. If you have a PC sim, that would be a great help too. Just download the charts from the AOPA website if you’re a member and fly them. It would also be a good idea to do some flying from the right seat at your home base so that you’re comfortable. Practice your partial panel skills and be able to do compass turns without thinking. They’re big on that.

In terms of accommodations, I stayed at the local motel for like $175 a week. They’ll set you up with this. It comes to only $25 a night. Very cheap. I think it was a Days Inn (not sure) and it was within walking dist of many restaurants and Wal-Mart. You’ll find yourself there quite a bit. There’s also a place called “the Golden Corral” which has an all-you-can-eat lunch and dinner buffet. Its not far from the hotel and great for loading up.

Oh and if you do end up staying at the motel, you’ll be provided free transportation by the school van. But be advised, it is a little fickle. You should be there at least 10 minutes before its expected arrival to ensure you get on it. They’ll leave without you in a heartbeat. Although the pick-ups and drop-offs are on a set schedule, it rarely comes when it is supposed to. Sometimes not at all. If you feel its running late, you better give them a call on the celly.

The instructors are mostly grads from the full zero to CFI program and are very knowledgeable. You’ll fly with a different instructor for each rating. Most of their planes are pretty beat up with crappy avionics. The only maintenance issue I had was an AI that would roll-over occasionally and a GS malfunction. One of the other students lost a cylinder on the missed approach – instructor took over and headed for the numbers.

On my CFII checkride, the oral consisted of knowing and explaining ALL of the FOI stuff, with less emphasis on the instrument knowledge. I also had a lesson plan prepared for a holding pattern which I taught to him. In the air, the examiner flew an ILS and holding pattern which I taught throughout, including the how and why of wind correction. He asked a lot of what and why questions as he flew. My hand-flying consisted of unusual attitude recoveries full and partial panel. I also flew a partial-panel localizer with a circle to land.

The CFI ride, which is an add-on, was to proficiency. Your instructor will go through all private and commercial maneuvers to make sure you are within standards before signing you off. The hardest part for me was getting the 180 power-off spot landing down. Being that I had zero hours in the RG, it took me like 8-9 hrs. to get signed off. The oral wasn’t too bad and quick since I rattled off my answers and gave very in-depth knowledge. He recognized this and moved on to the flight portion quickly without much more probing. The examiner did half the flying; I did the other half. Expect to perform Private and commercial maneuvers along with emergency procedures. All in all, he was a very fair guy.

What else, overall I was happy with my experience down there, but wanted out as soon as possible, it was very hot and living in a $25 a night motel for 3 weeks wasn’t too fun. Basically, just go down there prepared. Not sure what they charge now, but I felt the $4995.00 was steep but worth it as I got what I wanted in a short amount of time.

Hope this helps.
 
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