which corp aircraft to buy?

[KeroseneSnorter]

Oh well my two pennies,


Sounds like mostly shot trips with a few long ones.

Look at the newer Citations. ie Bravo, Encore, or CJ2

Bravo will get you 395 to 402 knots with 1700+(Cessna says 1900, but thats to fumes) nm range
Encore is around 415 knots with 1800 nm or so
CJ 2 400 to 410 knots and about 1400 miles

All at altitude gives pretty good economy and they can still get into almost every field that a KingAir 200 will.

Bravos can be had for 3 to 4.5 mil for a low time late model, Encores run about 1 to 2 mil more. CJ2's will be the hardest to get a good deal on. Not many out there on the used market and the ones that are are very low serial numbers.

I try to stay away from the first 25 to 50 of anything....gives them time to work out the bugs.

 

[English]

I'm with KeroseneSnorter. Well thought out and accurate post.

 

[sky37d]

Gadzooks! The guy better own his own refinery. Even controllers call 'em "Jetpigs".

and

Ahhh, the Junkstar!!!!


Put the 5 mil in a pile and set it on fire.........Same as trying to pay the fuel bill on that puppy!

So, I didn't understand this at all. I don't think they look like pigs, I actually think they are cool. 4 engines. James Bond liked it. Reasonably roomy.

Then I looked here
Jetstar

And, Gadzooks, 2,741 gallons of Jet Fuel. That's not pounds, that's gallons. Oh, My, That's a lot on the credit card to fill that puppy up.

Okay, so now I understand.

 

[Vector4fun]

I don't know, but assume Jetstars are rapidly decreasing to below bargain-basement (read nice Baron) prices. I can't imagine anyone spending the bucks to certify one for RVSM, but I wouldn't ever say never.

Sure seems like there's gonna be a bunch of cheap, old corporate jets this time next year. I suppose a bunch will migrate overseas or to Central/South America. Doesn't PEMEX operate a Jetstar or two? They could "afford" to....

 

[414Flyer]

Get a used PC-12...

And use the savings from buying and flying it, to make sure you are paid well and what a pilot is worth.

A PC-12 should be able to do Dallas to Teterboro nonstop too.

This wouldnt be an environmental remediation company would it?

 

[501261]

With a $5M budget you can get into just about any size airplane you want. Early GIII’s are running at less than $5M, and with the price of fuel in Texas, you can even justify operating them.

I’d recommend having the prospective owners go and charter a Lear 35, Citation 560, King Air 200, Hawker 700, and see which they like best. It’s like buying a car, some people buy Ford, some Chevy, does it really matter which one you drive… no they both get you there. However having an airplane they really like is very beneficial when that first heavy maintenance bill comes in.

If you get into a jet though, get very well acquainted with RVSM. Remember there are 2 parts of RVSM, 1 having the equipment installed on the aircraft ($100-200K). 2, getting the LOA! In my experience FSDO’s have been taking from 3 months to a year to issue a LOA, and this can been much longer if you are trying to get an approval for “Billy-Bob’s RVSM kit” instead of the manufacturer’s SB.

And Stop ragging the JetStar! I love those old birds, one of the roomiest cockpits ever built, flies like a dream and a pretty decent performer (with 731's).

 

[sky37d]

And Stop ragging the JetStar! I love those old birds, one of the roomiest cockpits ever built, flies like a dream and a pretty decent performer (with 731's).

Yeah, well, at least I'm not the only one who thinks they are cool, and there is an RVSM kit for them. I have seen at least a couple of them for sale with RVSM.

So, have them charter a 731 jetstar too!!

 

[501261]

Yeah, well, at least I'm not the only one who thinks they are cool, and there is an RVSM kit for them. I have seen at least a couple of them for sale with RVSM.

Remember what I was saying about the 2 parts of RVSM, even if its got the RVSM equipment, I'd sure hate to try and pass an RVSM Jetstar through to a LOA. It's just the way the gooberment works, the POI has got to put checks on his checklist and the Jetstar RVSM simply has square pegs for round holes.

So, have them charter a 731 jetstar too!!

No don't consider a Jetstar, I love'em but they're just not practical here anymore. Time to send the old girl down south or over to Africa.

 

[mike1mc]

As wella s RVSM, keep in mind the requirement for TAWS in turbine aircraft with 6+ seats due in March 2005. Lear 35s are cheap right now with the market, but look out for Lears coming up on the 12 year maintenance checks.

 

[350DRIVER]

If it were me I would go with a Hawker or Beechjet, both will satisfy his needs and you can get them for the price that he is willing to spend. CJ1's CJ2's are decent but quite expensive for what you get and small cabin that get's uncomfortable during the longer flights. The 350 would be no joy doing DAL TEB legs, did that and farther more times than I would like to remember and I can tell you that the pax sure wished they were in a jet.


3 5 0

 

[Vector4fun]

350,

I used to have a Hawker driver visit us in the tower cab regularly. Seemed to be a sharp character. Anyway, he told us they were a joy to fly/ride, but a bear to maintain properly. His was in the shop regularly, once for a couple months, just to get the inspections caught up.

 

[350DRIVER]

Vector4fun,

Some of the older models are a problem and one can expect it to be a mx hog. If you get a newer one, appropriate and complete pre-buy inspection then you are probably going to be ok. I have a friend who runs a flight department that has two Hawker's and one CJ and he has had very few problems with the H fleet. They are pretty reliable if you do some research before you purchase one. Obviously the older models are going to come back and bite ya, you usually get what you pay for though.

I personally would get a Raytheon service center to do the pre-buy if I was looking at buying one, surely they will find most things that may be a potential future problem.


3 5 0

 

[501261]

350,

I used to have a Hawker driver visit us in the tower cab regularly:

Are people still allowed up in the tower? I used to like to say hey, but I heard that after 9/11 no one's allowed up.

 

[Vector4fun]

Are people still allowed up in the tower? I used to like to say hey, but I heard that after 9/11 no one's allowed up.

I can't speak for every facility, I hear a few still aren't allowing visitors, but most can now. That could change tomorrow if Homeland Security decides to change colors again. You need to be a U.S. citizen, or face a month or more delay getting an OK from Region.

Call the office at your nearest Tower during weekdays and ask for the latest status. I had some members of a local flying club over a couple months ago. And Big D's been over for a visit.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

If you have a pilots lisence, it is fairly simple to get into a tower. Call ahead and tell them that you are a pilot would like to take a tour.

A buddy and I visited a class B approach and tower last spring. I think it took them about a month to confirm that we were pilots and get the paperwork straight. They also checked out drivers lisences at the door. We got issued visitor badges and were escorted through the place but it was fun and informative.

 

[flint4xx]

DAL-PHX? Once a week? Fly Southwest and save a few million bucks. Don't let your friend give you any financial advice!

 

[Bandit60]

DAL-PHX? Once a week? Fly Southwest and save a few million bucks. Don't let your friend give you any financial advice!

And wait in those horrible security lines, and be smashed in a cattle car.

No Thanks!!!!!!

I have to say that since I fly coporate jets, I hate to travel any other way. We (corporate pilots) are spoiled when it comes to the convience of travel. Ever time I go to school on an airliner I just cringe.

If this gentlemen has enough cash to own his airplane than it is worth the few million bucks.

 

[Airpiraterob]

guy has 5 million to play with.
he can save alot of it going with a prop job. A jet is cool and nice. but honestly, its whats most cost efficient. I flew with a guy form the middle of the country who did work in louisana and south carolina. all he needed was a Navajo (full panther conversion) and did just fine. he didnt want a King air 200 for the comfort...as it was more than he needed.

whats his needs/wants? does he really really need a leather interior or just want it badly? can he do just fine and not care either way? does he want a jet for the prestige and cool factor? or is he fine with a prop either way?

you said 4-6 max passengers.
aparently 30-90 minute trips...perhaps 2 hour trips with some weather holding time.
a few trips a month....1 a week minimum it seems.

the more basic the plane....the cheaper it would cost to pay the pilot to fly it. get a beechjet, and your pilot pay increases dramatically over the navajo pilot....and a bit more over the king air pilot. so, thats something to weigh (yeah i know its a bad thing to say but its true)

so what are his comprimises and go with that. theres what he needs, and what he wnats. will he show up with 8 people one day and need that extra 2 seats hes never used before? will ne need those extra two seats for the additional golf bags or extra cargo he picked up at the destination? (not to mention the capacity of the plane to take that extra unplanned weight)

yeah it screams king air
-c90...at the space limit, and 200...great space, as well as the B100...it's quite efficient up at altitude, and works well in high terrain <flat rated engines to 250>
-it also screams CJ-1....dont forget the CJ1
-piper navajo panther conversion works well since you won't even need full tanks with those trips.
-piper cheyanne series.....fast planes.
-the Pilatus PC-12 would fit that bill very well.
-but if he really wants the ultimate in style, theres the Piaggio 180 Avanti. if it was possible to pick up chics with a plane on looks that one would do it....and its near 400 knots of speed. i dunno the cost of one tho.

i suggest the king air 200 or B100 overall. if hes going into smaller paved strips, this plane will land there just fine. i rode on a lifeguard B200 once into a pretty narrow and rough runway in Oakley KS and it was wonderful. it OWNZ the small runway environment....as well as the PC-12....consider....

final note: i wonder what a re-engined Jetstar with some WR FJ44-3 engines would be like....besides slightly underpowered.....the RANGE on those engiens would be phenominal.

 

[Bandit60]

Stay away from B100's I fly a B100 and hated ever min of it. Besides the fact that it is noisy you may have a zero fuel weight issue with that model. That could limit your passenger load. The wing on the 100 is not near as good as the 200. You can get an old straight 200 for a good price these days. That is what I would do if I were going for a King Air.

 

[350DRIVER]

those extra current limiters up front, ahhh the memories will never fade.

3 5 0