which citation is better ?

[Gfunk27]

Im looking to leave 121 for a charter company with citations and just wondering how the Cj3, Bravo, and Excel match up. I know the Excel is more aircraft than the Bravo, but am not sure about the CJ3 and Bravo.

 

[deadstick]

Check HERE

also...



The Citation V/Ultra/Encore

Basically a stretched S/II by 24" and features additional engine thrust. A popular airplane, it was in production in late 1992. In May 1994 and improved version, the Ultra, was introduced giving it a greater range, added thrust and updated avionics package. Production ended in 1999 with the Encore in 2000. Improvements, trailing-link gear, P&W 535A engines and total wind antiicing bleed air). Citation V Serial CE560-0001 through CE5600259, Citation Ultra CE560-0260 through CE560-0538 and Encore CE560-0539 and ON

The Citation II/Bravo

Built between 1978 and 1984, quickly became the worldwide best selling business jet. Customer demand resulted in a reopening of the production line in 1987. The airplane was being manufactured until 1995. In April of 1997 the Bravo rolled out with improvement over the heavy II with trailing-link gear, P&W 530A engines, 45,000' surface ceiling, Primus 1000 avionics and increased payload. Citation II Serial CE550-0002 through CE550-0505, Citation II Classic Serial CE550-0550 through 0626 and Citation II Heavy CE550-0627 through CE550-0733. Citation Bravo Serial CE550-0801 and ON

The Citation CJ3

The first flight of the CJ3 is planned for the second quarter of 2003 with certification under FAR Part 23 Computer Category since the aircraft gross weight is heavier than 12,500. This is slated for later this year. Deliveries of the $5.895 million (2003) CJ3, designated the Model 525B, are scheduled to begin in the third quarter of 2004. The new tailcone is 24 inches longer for
passenger comfort than the CJ2 and expanded standard and optional avionics. Avionics will include full Collins Pro Line 21 CNS radios, Collins FMS-3000, FMS performance database. The database will provide takeoff and landing performance data at the customer's fingertips. Additionally, V-speeds will be calculated and posted to the primary flight display (PFD). In addition Goodrich's LandMark Class-B TAWS, Goodrich Skywatch TCAS I. Like the rest of the citation jet series, the 1,664 NM (NBAA IFR) CJ3 is designed for single pilot operations at a certified altitude of FL450. The FADEC-controlled, 2,780 lbs thrust Williams FJ44-3A engines (14% more takeoff thrust and 12% more cruise thrust than the FJ44-2C) will yield a high-speed cruise of 417 knots at FL330 while burning about 1,300 pph. The CJ2 speed is 410 knots and the Bravo is 403 knots at the same FL330. The TBO is expected to be 4,000 hours. Balanced field of 3,450 feet at sea level at a maximum takeoff weight of 13,870 pounds (CJ2 12,375) is only 30 feet longer than the CJ2 and 150 less than the citation Bravo. The useable fuel load is planned for 5,510 pounds. Warranty will include 5 years/5000 hours for airframe and avionics. Engines will have a 3 year/ 1500 hour warranty. January 2003 Cessna holding orders for more than 160 CJ3s.

 

[mavrck]

Excellent information, Deadstick!

 

[kilroy]

I'd say the one that pays the most with the best QOL and benifits is the better plane to me..

 

[rubicon789]

None, they are all slow as hell... Well not the 7 and the X, but the rest I sometimes wonder if they have both engines lit. Any jet with rubber boots on it, come on!!!! LOL Safe flying to everyone. There is no a/c like a Lear.

 

[kilroy]

None, they are all slow as hell... Well not the 7 and the X, but the rest I sometimes wonder if they have both engines lit. Any jet with rubber boots on it, come on!!!! LOL Safe flying to everyone. There is no a/c like a Lear.

Some day you'll get to the point were you don't give a rats ass what you fly as long as the pay is great qol good and good MX.

Its not about about what you fly but the size of the paycheck and how often you are home :cartman:

 

[Galaxy]

Some day you'll get to the point were you don't give a rats ass what you fly as long as the pay is great qol good and good MX.

Its not about about what you fly but the size of the paycheck and how often you are home :cartman:

Now there is a guy that has it figured out!
Good post!

 

[blzr]

None, they are all slow as hell... Well not the 7 and the X, but the rest I sometimes wonder if they have both engines lit. Any jet with rubber boots on it, come on!!!! LOL Safe flying to everyone. There is no a/c like a Lear.

HAHAHAHA, Kiddie Jet!! LAND LOVER!! LED SLED!! all can be accurate descriptions of the Lumbering Lear.

 

[siegelaviation]

Im looking to leave 121 for a charter company with citations and just wondering how the Cj3, Bravo, and Excel match up. I know the Excel is more aircraft than the Bravo, but am not sure about the CJ3 and Bravo.

I flew a Citation Bravo for a while. In fact, I got to pick it up brand new from the factory. It was a great plane that does alot of things well.

Michael

 

[Flybet3]

Im looking to leave 121 for a charter company with citations and just wondering how the Cj3, Bravo, and Excel match up. I know the Excel is more aircraft than the Bravo, but am not sure about the CJ3 and Bravo.

Well duuuuhhhh the one that pays more, sorry i figured i would give you some Regional humor.

 

[rubicon789]

Some day you'll get to the point were you don't give a rats ass what you fly as long as the pay is great qol good and good MX.

Its not about about what you fly but the size of the paycheck and how often you are home :cartman:

I do have to agree with you here.

HAHAHAHA, Kiddie Jet!! LAND LOVER!! LED SLED!! all can be accurate descriptions of the Lumbering Lear.

Although small, the lear can blow the socks of a bunch of a/c. The citation is no comparison bar none. Now if you throw in some of the bigger stuff 7 and X well now you are comparing apples to oranges. But vs the small stuff no way. FLy Safe

 

[honeycomb]

Rubicon789,

Sir (or Ma'am)....

1) The Citations have external baggage.....The Lear Does NOT!
2) The Lear 31 was built to compete with the Citation V (that's Five not VII)!
3) The Citation has more room up front than the Lear!
4) The Cockpit is not Hot or Cold up front if the cabin is fine in the Citation like the Lear!
5) The list goes on and on.

I have 1500 + hours in Lear Jet series (20/30/50) and have about 900 hours in all Citations (II/V/XL/XLS) and whould say I like my time in the V better than my time in a 20 series any day.

Other than the above mentioned I liked the 35A better than a V but the passengers didn't.

I've flown the V's at .75 daily and I know some who swear by flying the Lear series at .74 (for some reason....not good reasoning mind you). So, who's faster in that profile? Don't bother answering that question.

The pax's pay the bills. So they get what they want. And, that says a lot when you look a total numbers of each.

That leads me to say "Why are they still making the V (series) and not making the 35 series?"

Get over your only type and make the move to common sense before its to late. (joke)

 

[Tgaug6300]

I would also like to see your Lears' runway numbers vs the Citations'.

 

[honeycomb]

Depends on the wt of the lears and which model.

#lb for #lb the lear 35A meets the same #'s of a 31A. But, the 35A can go a lot farther than a 31A ... those wingtips mean a lot.

On the other hand the 31A was designed to compete with a Citation V series a/c. As long as the runway is dry its a fair fight. If the runway is wet ..... you can start Doubling the V's #'s to get actual #'s.

So, you see it depends on which Citation you are talking about. It also depends on if the runway is dry or wet.

It's not an apples to apples comparison.

The 35A has longer #'s at gross wt but it also outgrosses all the V series a/c. It goes farther .. faster .. longer .. quicker .. for less. If you compare a V to a 35A wt for wt then the 35A is a going to be competitive. Unless the runway turns wet.

If the XLS +'s came with the Sov. wing and had dual truck tires aside like the Sov. then this would be the easiest choice around.

Get what fits the mission. Fly what pays you the most with the most days off.

'and thats all I got to say about that'

 

[jonjuan]

I would also like to see your Lears' runway numbers vs the Citations'.

Takeoff distance (5000',25C, MTOW)
CJ3-4,750, LR40XR-5,090, XL-5,770, XLS-5,490

Landing distance (MLW)
CJ3-2,770, LR40XR-2,660, XL-3,180, XLS-3,180

Maximum payload
CJ3-1,810, LR40XR-2,285, XL-2,260, XLS-2,300

Payload with Maximum fuel
CJ3-660, LR40XR-2,160, XL-720, XLS-860

Baggage (external)
CJ3-69, LR40XR-65, XL/S-85, Bravo-73

Cockpit volume (cu ft.)
Bravo-80, LR40XR-85, XL/S-90

 

[Guitar Guy]

jonjuan - what about ranges for maximum payload and maximum fuel/no payload.

It might also be illuminating to see block or flight times for various ranges, say 300 NM, 500 NM and 1000 NM.

 

[Tgaug6300]

JJ,

Could you also please post the 45 and 60 #'s too (if possible).

 

[honeycomb]

Also if it isn't too much....could you use a single wt (for all the a/c) and not gross wt for each a/c.

That is so discriminator toward the heavier a/c ya' know.