Which Academy?

[pilotviolin]

I really think it all depends on you. If your motivated you are going to save yourself a ton of money by not going to FSI or some other big school. So you don't want to buy a plane, shop around. I found a 152 for 45 bucks an hour. Not to bad. Time is time, I don't care what people say. BeefCake knows what is up. Go spend 4 Gs to get your private instead of 10 at FSI, then finish everything else up at Shebles in Las Vegas. I did my commercial single and multi in 4 days!! Look them up, you can't beat them. I still only have 6 hours of piston multi. Got my rating and now I have 1200 turbine multi 3 years later. A good goal is to get your CFI as fast as you can and don't spend a lot. Go to talk to shebles. http://www.shebleaviation.com
I have no doubt about how good FSI is, I got my type and go every 6 months to the FSI Citation center in Wichita. They do teach what is expected in the sims, but it is not worth going to Vero Beach and paying 50 grand to learn something that can be learned in a few days.

 

[ShyFlyGuy]

Don't throw your money away! Just go become an airport bum and buy a Cessna 150 for $20,000 and hire some local to teach you.

Violin,

You're right on the money. In a decient 152, you can get your Private, Instrument, drop the cash on getting your Commercial in a local twin or buy it at ATP, then you can get your Commercial Single-Engine add-on entirely in the 152 again (in just a few hours, I might add), parts of your CFI, and all your CFII! That's a lot of flying and savings, my friend. I've been there, and I know a lot of people who have also traveled that road. Any further questions, feel free to write.

Shy

 

[Tater Salad]

I've been doing some research on taking ownership of an older aircraft for training, and just about every which way I look at it, it seems to be cheaper per training hour.

Here's a couple of questions to ponder on though................ It may seem crazy to say the least but if it is financially possible to do so, would buying an old Seminole or something comparable to it be a good idea?

My father (an ex-Navy fighter pilot) suggested it to me when I was talking to him about buying an old 172 or Warrior. He further suggested picking up my Multi first, then going back to do Instrument in Multi if we could make ownership of an old twin possible. I haven't had a chance to look at the FARs for training reqs, but is that possible, and if so is it a good idea?

 

[flyinlow67]

It's possible, but not a very good approach to do it.
You need to crawl before you walk, and walk before you run.
The 150 or 152 is a great trainer, and don't forget, you can do most of your commercial in the airplane as well. You need the 10 hours of complex time, but I have sent students on checkrides for Comm in a 152. They do the manuvers, come back, demonstrate they can wiggle the prop and gear and UNDERSTAND THE SYSTEMS (my personal soapbox there) and fini!
Starting out in a multi does build multi time faster, but you are dealing with a more complex aircraft, not to mention trying to get insured in the thing. Plus, the Seminole is a marginal one engine performer at best.
Just some thoughts from an old timer.

 

[ShyFlyGuy]

It's possible, but not a very good approach to do it.
You need to crawl before you walk, and walk before you run.
The 150 or 152 is a great trainer, and don't forget, you can do most of your commercial in the airplane as well. You need the 10 hours of complex time, but I have sent students on checkrides for Comm in a 152. They do the manuvers, come back, demonstrate they can wiggle the prop and gear and UNDERSTAND THE SYSTEMS (my personal soapbox there) and fini!
Starting out in a multi does build multi time faster, but you are dealing with a more complex aircraft, not to mention trying to get insured in the thing. Plus, the Seminole is a marginal one engine performer at best.
Just some thoughts from an old timer.

Well said, here-here.

Shy

 

[bobbysamd]

Buying an airplane for training

I've been doing some research on taking ownership of an older aircraft for training, and just about every which way I look at it, it seems to be cheaper per training hour.

Have you factored in maintenance into your per-hour cost? Airplanes are not like cars. Airplanes go down for seemingly picayune problems that must be fixed before you can fly again. As owner, you would have to deal with these problems, not the least of which is finding a mechanic who can get on them; in the meantime, you are not flying when you should be. Is your time worth these hassles when you should be thinking only about training? Don't forget, too, that your airplane will need annuals and 100-hour inspections because it is used for flight instruction for hire, and, perhaps an engine overhaul if it is high TBO.

Don't forget about insurance, and possible state aircraft ownership taxes.

At a good school or FBO, other people worry about these problems. Your only concern will be your training.

Here's a couple of questions to ponder on though................ It may seem crazy to say the least but if it is financially possible to do so, would buying an old Seminole or something comparable to it be a good idea?

No. Most Seminoles are used for training and the old ones are tired. Too many things can go wrong with them, which brings us back to the maintenance issues discussed above. In my last aviation job, which was instructing Part 61 contract students, we had one Seminole. It was our only aircraft. It was a veteran. The airplane was down frequently for maintenance, which meant lost time for our students. Seminoles are fine multi trainers for schools which have the resources to maintain them, e.g., Riddle and FlightSafety, but are a burden for individual owners who lack these resources.

 

[Tater Salad]

I have only punched rough numbers, but it seems like it COULD (not guaranteed) to be cheaper. Also, I have been asking around more and I'm being told that a single engine would be the better way to go for most of all maintenance reasons as was said above. AV-ED at KJYO (the school I'm thinking of going back to) is renting 172P's for $101/hr. The A&P mechanics at the local airport have all told me that a 172P with a recent overhaul could very potentially be cheaper than $101/hr to operate.

One more thing. Does anyone know of a reliable source for obtaining operating costs for different aircraft? That could REALLY help me at this point. Thanks.

 

[bobbysamd]

AV-ED at KJYO (the school I'm thinking of going back to) is renting 172P's for $101/hr . . . .

I assume that is wet. With or without instructor? If it is without instructor, than you are being overcharged. With would be about right.

 

[Tater Salad]

Hey bobbysamd. Yes, the cost is wet. However, the cost is without an instructor. Instructor is another $39/hr. The school itself (www.av-ed.com) is a great school. I got my private there a couple of years ago, and I have a lot of trust in them. When I trained the 172P's were $78/hr. Rising airport costs at Leesburg, VA, and out of control fuel prices have obviously sent rental costs through the roof. I'm not the most knowledgeable person on operating costs, but I think I can do better with a personal aircraft (single engine) than $101/hr for operating costs. What do you think?

 

[bobbysamd]

Your own training airplane

[The] cost is wet. However, the cost is without an instructor. Instructor is another $39/hr. The school itself (www.av-ed.com) is a great school. I got my private there a couple of years ago, and I have a lot of trust in them. When I trained the 172P's were $78/hr. Rising airport costs at Leesburg, VA, and out of control fuel prices have obviously sent rental costs through the roof. I'm not the most knowledgeable person on operating costs, but I think I can do better with a personal aircraft (single engine) than $101/hr for operating costs. What do you think?

The dual charge is about right. Last I checked, here in Denver, 172s were going for $65 per hour, but that was before crude prices had gone out of control.

In that regard, fuel prices are something you need to consider. You also need to consider if it is worth your time to deal with everyday airplane operating hassles and their effect on your training schedule. You might think you're saving money but, in the long run, if unexpected maintenance comes up and it grounds you, training delays, the costs of extra flights and instructor time could eat up your savings. For these reasons, I would recommend against purchasing an airplane and being trained in it.