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spinup

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Posts
115
Myself along with many others are strugling with a difficult furlough, that will be long lasting.

I find it interesting that after the tragedies there was so much talk of brotherhood and togetherness. Now no furloughed pilot can get a job without being asked to resign senority. This has become so "trendy" I've had coporate flight departments ask for it.

So let me get this straight, after years of goal directed sacrafices I'm supposed to chalk it all off as a loss and start over. In essence Flight Officers are being punished for what happened in September. Flight departments will be happy to exploit your skills, but only if you promise them your world, and don't think you'll get the same forever commitment out of any employer.

Not once have I been asked if I would excercise the 2 year LOA written into my contract, which I would gladly do. I would be nice to see some of that togetherness we all claimed to have.

Obviously we will all get thru this and be much wiser for the wear. I don't intend this to take a complaining tone, just to illustrate a fact. Let's practice what we preach.
 
Spinup,

Your post illustrates why a furlough is very difficult in today's industry. The fact that any "good" company or even a small airline would require a seniority # resignation is basically taking away any real opportunity to move on during the furlough. I left a company where I would have been making good money flying an RJ as Captain with 15 days off a month to work at a major only to be furloughed while the company hires like crazy at regional subsidiaries(Lorenzo). I have been VERY lucky to find a charter job.....flying nice corporate jets.....but I literally have no life and I am not making decent money. I could build on my experience in these specific aircraft but the good companies require sen. resignation. Is that even legal? I may sound like a complainer but after sacrificing for 12 years to build a career the situation I am in is disturbing.....mainly because airplanes are full and our regional partners are hiring. Using 9/11 as an excuse sickens me.
 
Excellent points, I have had similiar thoughts..........Everyday I leave my delivery truck at a warehouse near the Akron airport. Overhead are many regional jets flying in to land. Same thing at Cleveland Hopkins as well. I see more regional jets now at big airports nearby than I do 737's. I'll keep doing what I'm doing....there is no way I will resign my seniority number!!! I'll get back there someday. Let's just say that it's been pretty tough for an airline guy to get a non-flying job these days. Or maybe it's just me, who knows. It sucks being furloughed.

I think ALPA really screwed up a long time ago by not requiring all regional jet flying to be done by the majors.......they should have seen this coming. This would have avoided all of the whipsawing now taking place between pilot groups. And in the long-run it would have created ultimitely more higher paying major jobs for everybody. Not that the regional guys can't do a fine job....they do!!! I used to be one of them. Now we are hearing forecasts of 42% of all mainline flying to be performed by regional jets in the next 5 years. It is clear to me that management is just using these jets to create a new "C" scale.
 
Spinup

I'm not sure I understand your plight. You write:
"I find it interesting that after the tragedies there was so much talk of brotherhood and togetherness. Now no furloughed pilot can get a job without being asked to resign senority. This has become so "trendy" I've had coporate flight departments ask for it."

So let's see. You worked for a regional or corporate flight department and told them see ya, went on to a major and then got furloughed. I'm very sorry to hear that.

However, now you want someone to give you an interm job, pay for your training which will be thousands of dollars at least, pay you thousands of dollars while you are getting OJT. Then in a year, maybe more, maybe less, you quit with two weeks notice maybe to go back to said major or another job with better pay or benefits or whatever.

You go on to write "So let me get this straight, after years of goal directed sacrafices I'm supposed to chalk it all off as a loss and start over. In essence Flight Officers are being punished for what happened in September. Flight departments will be happy to exploit your skills, but only if you promise them your world, and don't think you'll get the same forever commitment out of any employer. "

First, Flight officers are not being punished, our industry is in a down cycle. This industry has been going through these cycles for dozens of years and will continue to do soon forever as long as our industry is linked to the ecnomy as closely as it is. Secondly, flight departments are not wanting to exploit your skills, their wanting to hire you, spend money training you, and invest their time in you. In return, they don't want the world, they just want what you want, a reasonable return out your investment. They want some assurance their hugh investment in you of both their time and money will not be wasted when you decide to leave to go back to the company from which you were furloughed.

So, what do you mean by "Let's practice what we preach". Do you want some company to hire you, train you, perhaps to be a captain on their CRJ, ERJ, Lear, or maybe a 737. Invest tons of their resources in you, pay you 50,60 or maybe 100K a year, all until your called back to you major?
OK, I'll ask the question everyone want the answer to. Why? When I can hire someone else with maybe slightly less experience but a much better attitude and someone who won't be treating me like a one night stand.

Yea you worked for a major, I'm sure your the best pilot ever, and I'm equally sure you feel you should have the respect and admiration of anyone you'd apply to. But just don't go looking for entiltments, we've all worked hard to get where we are including that chief pilot in that little corporate flight department that your trying to get a job with, at least until your major calls you back.

Good luck to you, I hope you find a job, really
 
Dab,

Excellent comments. I still can't figured out how some of our fellow pilots think they should have some kind of job-guarantee. Who do they think they are, Government Workers?
 
Dab,

You have completely missed the point. I am glad for you that when the music stopped you still had a seat. I'ts great that you have eternal loyality to your employer, but I think that it is presumptious for you to think that everyone that hires on feels the same. If you have reached your goal job and are happy with what you have, wonderfull. But thoes who have not yet will leave surely as a furloughed pilot. I see a B737 type on your tag, my guess is that you didn't get that to remain with the J3100 operator.

How long does it take for an employer to recoup their training costs? I honestly don't know. But I would assume that it wouldn't be more than 2 years. If it is and I'm not willing to commit, than your point is valid. The narrow thought process you display is certinaly a big part of the probelm. With a 2 year committment an employer knows how long you will be there, and can control attrition. How many times in this industry have pilots left jobs after 1yr, 6mos, 3mos. If a "one night stand" is giving 110% to an interim employer for a couple of years or more, then I'm guilty.

This IS different than other furloughs, to my knowledge this is the first time wide spread senority resignation has occured. That was my point with the coporate operator.

For some reason you have put yourself in a position of inferiority with the suposition that Mainline types want to step down for other jobs. When all we want to do is step to the side. I havent asserted that corporate or regional jobs are lesser in any way, these do appear to be your feelings though. If that is where my goals had taken me I would be fighting just as hard to maintain thoes jobs. Pilots are Pilots, and have my full respect regardless of job location.
 
Spinup,

No you've missed the point. When I go to Vegas, through $100.00 on the table an loose, it was my risk, no body owes me anything, no one had a gun to my head to make the gamble. I'm not going to go to the manager of the blackjack table now after the fact and complain that the odds are in his favor, or that I'm not able to feed my family. Of that it would seem everyone else is also loosing too. I'm not going to go to the board that controls gambling and complain that the casino ripped me off. I'm going to go out and make another $100.00 bucks and come back to the table or not depending on my risk tolerance.

I don't believe in "eternal loyalty to your employer". I do however have a realistic expectation about what an employer wants when he types you, sends you through indoc, and whatever else. You are costing them $$$$. They want a couple of years out of you for that or you’re simply not worth it. And I think that's reasonable.

BTW, whoever your employer was probably spent at least $25-35,000.00 training you as would any regional or possibly a corp operator you'd like to work for. No matter how good you are you’re not worth your salary and benefits, and the cost of all the initial training if you don't have intentions of staying on very long. It's basic cost benefit analysis.

Call Flight Safety and find out how much a type rating costs, unless it's a 737 type, it isn’t cheap.

Oh and If I had got on w/ (place name of major airline here) 2 years when I was trying, I'd be on the street today also. And I'd feel the same way I do today. It's not that I'm unsympathetic to your situation, I'm just realistic. I'm done!

Dab
 

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