Where'd "Death By Jesus" go?

[enigma]

Well, for starters, I think cherplt was using a little-known (at least on this thread) literary device called "sarcasm." I've never known a devout member of any religion who understood it.

(There is, however, the possibility that you yourself were employing sarcasm to brow-beat Cherplt. If that's the case, I stand corrected.)

I am a devout Christian who uses sarcasm all of the time. However, I'm only slightly sarcastic in this case, and it's not in an attempt to brow-beat anyone.

I just truly don't understand the logic of people who catagorically reject the Christian message yet seem to accept other aspects of a Supreme being. A Supreme being that we know about only through a book that claims to be his inspired word, a book which incidentally also prophecies about Jesus. In other words, without the books commonly known as the old testament, we wouldn't know about Yaweh God or hell either one.

I've been doing a little thinkin (dangerous, I know) and I wonder if the reason that non-believers fight against Christianity might be the concept of a hell. I find it odd that a person can accept that life means nothing, you know a humanist with an evolutionist belief, yet still get mad when a Christian states his belief that non-Christians will go to hell. If you are right and there is no God, then it follows (at least to me) that there is no hell. If you are so convinced that you are right about there being no God, why bother getting mad if a misguided person tells you that he thinks that you might go to hell? You have already rejected the evangelists teaching have you not? If you've rejected it then move on. You might be right. I don't believe you are, but I have no ability to affect your life because of my beliefs. I can't send you to hell if it doesn't exist. I can't send you to hell if if DOES exist. Neither can 80, or timebuilder, or flybuddy. I've already stated my position, I have a responsibility, to God, to spread his Word, to tell others the good news. What you do with that news is up to you.

Some of you will probably attempt to claim that Christians just want to tell you what you can or can't do in your own bedroom. That's another debate, but I can say that society must establish rules of conduct and that Judeo-Christian rules have proven over the centuries to be successful in maintaining a positive order and social structure. Even societies that have no Judeo-Christian background have developed rules of conduct remarkably similar to those rules.

regards,
enigma

 

[Timebuilder]

since jesus never listens, much less talks back, equating him to the garage door is a perfect example

That is a perfect example.

A perfect example of not understanding the relationship with Christ.

He always hears, and when He speaks it is subtley, through the Holy Spirit.

As I have said, if you are expecting a phone call or email from God, your wait will be VERY long. If you open your heart, which is difficult for some to do, you will be amazed at the change in your life.

Now, to speak specifically to those who have felt wronged or disappointed by God, remember this: our disappointments come from other humans, not from God. We DO have a free will, and even those who claim to be devoted to God have feet of clay, like everyone else.

Don't judge God by the errors of people. You'll be way ahead of the curve if you do.

 

[Snakum]

You are mean and in my humble opinion an angry and bitter man.

Oh Jeeeezus ...

Very typical. He disagrees with you, and he makes a little fun of your superstitions. Nothing more. You don't know any of us well enough to make such a narrow-minded, egotistical statement. Typical. I respect Timebuilder because he is knowledgeable and civil. I just don't agree with him about his cultural mythology (a friendly jab there ). I make no assumptions about him as a person because that would be just plain ignorant.

Debating religion can be illuminating on both sides of the fence, if it is allowed to be. Unfortunately, it usually denigrates into an existential 'my dad can beat up your dad' argument, contrary to the intelligence and education level of posters on both sides.

I would like to remind Christians here though, to take a look at the threads involving PlaneHPN. Take a hard look at what some of your openly-professing Christian brothers had to say to a mentally handicapped, yet sincere and harmless man. Like it or not, your spiritual traditions are often judged by the behavior of it's adherants.

Reverend Thich Minh Thong - Rinzai Zen MonkeyButt

 

[Timebuilder]

Snakum, I think you would see more compassion to Bruce if everyone knew that he was what Neal says he is. Although small, I have to admit that their IS a chance of "Bruce" being a "character".

I don't think anyone was openly "mean" on those threads. Maybe I missed one or two.

 

[Snakum]

Well, knowing Neal only thru the old CAL forums, I can't say for sure. But the fact that he always posted openly using his real name, and IIRC was a member of the Calex MEC, I have to believe he is being truthful. Others who know him in person speak very highly of him, as well. I won't comment on his choice of colleges though.

I just thought some of the comments by avowed Christians were in poor taste, in light of comments by these same people on the then-running DBJ thread. If I were a true Christian (not just culturally) who openly proselytized here, I would try to be more aware of what I write. That's all. No biggie.

Minh

 

[Typhoon1244]

Okay, I'll try this one more time.

I suggested that debating theology with Super 80 and Timebuilder is about as fruitful as debating theology with my garage door. It's the old "talking-to-a-brick-wall" analogy. I think most of us get it.

Super 80, you turned it into the suggestion that I worship inanimate objects.

If that's really what you meant, then you must be tweaking me...because no sane person would respond the way you did to my post.

(For the record, Webster's dictionary calls worship "reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power." If that's the case, I don't worship anything.)

 

[Timebuilder]

I suggested that debating theology with Super 80 and Timebuilder is about as fruitful as debating theology with my garage door. It's the old "talking-to-a-brick-wall" analogy. I think most of us get it.

While that is simply your opinion, Super 80 used the occaision of this opinion (I think I'll go find something productive to do. I haven't debated theology with the garage door yet...maybe I'll try that.) to illustrate how futile such an attempted conversation with an inanimate object really is, from a Biblical perspective.

Super 80, you turned it into the suggestion that I worship inanimate objects.

I don't think he ever made that suggestion, only that people have been doing this, the worshipping of objects, for a very long time. It is ill-advised, considering the presence of a living God.

That trumps the garage door every time.

 

[Super 80]

Super 80, you turned it into the suggestion that I worship inanimate objects.

If that's really what you meant, then you must be tweaking me...because no sane person would respond the way you did to my post.

No, Timebuilder got it. You were using the garage door as a metaphor for our discussions. I was using your speaking as a metaphor for false worship.

 

[Super 80]

There are two miraculous feedings in the Bible. These miracles have more meaning than just the stamp of authenticity of God, but have a figurative meaning as well, centering on the bread. The first was described at Mark 6:32-44 occurred after John the Baptist was beheaded. Here Jesus goes along the Sea of Galilee to a “solitary place,” probably on the Northeast shore to get some rest. The Jews though follow Him. Rather than be angry that He and the Disciples have been denied rest, Jesus has compassion on them and begins to teach them.

Late in the day, the Disciples ask Jesus to dismiss the people so they can go into the neighboring villages and get something to eat. Instead Jesus responds emphatically in a personal sense by saying you feed them. Balking at the cost, Jesus then asks them what they have. Pitifully, all they have is five small flat barley loaves and a couple of fish. Jesus prayed, thanking God for bringing forth bread from the earth, as an example of a typical eucharist of the era practiced by pious Jews.

Five loaves feeds five thousand men. But the baskets of scraps gathered afterward numbered twelve. This is in reflection of the people Jesus had taught. They are Jews of the twelve tribes.

A separate account in Matthew 15:29-39 describes a second feeding. Here they have traveled by boat to the southeast side of the Sea of Galilee.

Now this was also the area where the Disciples had traveled with Jesus to before in the region of Gerasenes where they had encountered the maniacal demon possessed man, Legion. Now crossing the lake presents a kind of abyss to the Jews of that time. They were literally going across Hell to a place where the Gentiles were only to be met by this madman. Jesus healed the man but prohibited him from coming back with Him. Instead the man becomes a witness for Christ and when they return at the time of this story in Matthew four thousand people spend three days learning from Jesus. Talk about an effective ministry! That man witnessed for Jesus and those pagan people so prepared end up praising the God of Israel.

Now when the time comes to go, Jesus wants to feed them. The Disciples not anticipating a messianic banquet are aghast at where they would get the food. Again Jesus asks what they have. This time it is seven loafs and a few small fish. Jesus again gives thanks, and breaks the bread distributing it to the Disciples who distribute it to the people.

Afterward, they gather seven baskets of broken pieces. (The word for basket used here differs from the one in Mark. Here the basket used is not used for kosher food, further reinforcing that these are non-Jewish people.) This represents the seven nations in the Promised Land –the Hittites, Girgash1tes, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites.

So the bread is Jesus’ teaching, or the Word of God, as both groups were instructed by the Son of God (where son of… means like unto –reinforcing the name of messiah as Immanuel, God with us). This bread was given to the twelve tribes of Israel and the seven pagan nations representing the Gentile world.

This confirms Isaiah 49:6

he says:
"It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

Jesus’ message (bread) was for both Jew and Gentile.

 

[Timebuilder]

It always amazes me just how much fulfilled prophecy there is.

It really is awesome.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

and the world turns
(IBpage26)