Where'd "Death By Jesus" go?

[Super 80]

He's the victim of the worst case of thread hijacking I've ever seen. An "urban legend" joke turned into a debate on the existence of God because one member (Super 80) took offense to it.

Thread Hijacker: I like the sound of that.

Perhaps its a case where what was meant to be mean was turned to good.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Perhaps its a case where what was meant to be mean was turned to good.

On behalf of skeptics everywhere, allow me to say: perhaps...but I doubt it.

(On the other hand, you can say you had to hijack it. You know, since there's no free will... )

 

[Super 80]

Maybe she wasn't given any to Joseph, but she was given some to somebody.

Well this is kind of inane, but it is very typical for detractors of Jesus to say. In His day, Jesus was rumored to be the b@st@rd child of a Roman Soldier. This did Jesus in, in two very cruel ways. One it denied Him His Jewish heraldry, because unlike the modern rule, you get your Jewish heritage from your father, not your mother. The other is that it made Mary an adulterer, and so it made Jesus doubly illegitimate.

This sheds some light on the following exchange, because you see, Jesus was known by the leaders in Jerusalem, and they knew about His rumored past, that is why they say what they aren't -they are contrasting themselves to what Jesus is rumored to be:

JN 8:39 "Abraham is our father," they answered.
"If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would do the things Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the things your own father does."

"We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."

JN 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

One of the little things about Mary, who was probably only in her teens, is that when she was to wed Joseph, it was like a marriage vow instead of just an engagement as we think of now. The couple was to remain faithful to each other but abstain from sex for the first year. When she became pregnant because of the Spirit (and not any messing around as Sctt suggests) Joseph being kind decided to quietly have her put away. He could have had her stoned under the Law. The stigma of an illegitimate birth which is what people would call it if she became pregnant even by Joseph that first year could also explain why Joseph stayed in Bethlehem instead of returning to Nazareth. The people there would know.

Another aspect of Mary and Joseph was that she was from the Priestly line and Joseph from the Kingly line. That heritage would have entitled Jesus to be both King and High Priest if dual tribe heritage were allowed.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Well this is kind of inane, but it is very typical for detractors of Jesus to say.

Super 80, lighten up.

Which seems more likely?

(a) Sctt@NJA was attempting to bring Christianity to its knees with one post.

(b) Sctt@NJA was attempting to be funny.

Just because you don't find it humorous doesn't mean it's an attack on your religion.

 

[Typhoon1244]

P.S. Could you possibly post a reply here of five hundred words or less? Reminds me of surplus1.

 

[Super 80]

Super 80, lighten up.

Huh? I said it was inane in very much the sense that it was an empty charge. A synonym for it as I meant it would be trifling.

But at any rate it brought out a little fact that sheds some light on the exchange Jesus has with the Pharisees that had challenged Him.

Which seems more likely?

(a) Sctt@NJA was attempting to bring Christianity to its knees with one post.

(b) Sctt@NJA was attempting to be funny.

(c) Sctt@NJA was posting some inane chatter which could be taken as mocking.

I didn't take it as an attack, you might want to lighten up yourself there.

 

[Typhoon1244]

...you might want to lighten up yourself there.

Uh huh.


"Lighten up."

"No, you lighten up!"

"No, you lighten up!"

"No..."


(I think I'll go find something productive to do. I haven't debated theology with the garage door yet...maybe I'll try that.)

 

[Timebuilder]

Arguing about religion is a no-win situation. Believe what you want to and don't let anyone tell you different.

That's a little like saying "it doesn't matter if you may be wrong and ignorant of the truth. You stick to that and don't let anyone change you."

Now that I think about it, why should anyone be upset about Cherplt nuking that thread? He's the one who ought to be upset! He's the victim of the worst case of thread hijacking I've ever seen.

Funny, he didn't mention that reason.

It's a martyr. It died for all our threads.

Now THAT was funny. So, your are saying that the missing thread provides a free gift of deletion for those who are unable to follow the Law of a civil discussion?

You may be onto something there.

 

[Super 80]

(I think I'll go find something productive to do. I haven't debated theology with the garage door yet...maybe I'll try that.)

Try asking it to save you.

Hey, it's no different than chopping up some wood, cooking your meal and carving a piece of wood into an idol and using the last light from the fire to pray to it.

 

[labbats]

Remind me again how many people's lives and minds you've changed by arguing religion with them.

 

[Timebuilder]

Well, I'll make a bold assumption here. You equate sharing the Gospel with the unsaved with "arguing".

When someone asks a question in a contentious manner, you could say that it is an "argument" in the conventional sense, but when people have a civil discussion based on their need, hatred of God, disbelief, curiosity, or lack of understanding, all of that is the more "legal" definition of argument.

Main Entry: ar·gu·ment
Pronunciation: 'är-gy&-m&nt
Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin argumentum, from arguere
Date: 14th century
1 obsolete : an outward sign : INDICATION
2 a : a reason given in proof or rebuttal b : discourse intended to persuade
3 a : the act or process of arguing : ARGUMENTATION b : a coherent series of statements leading from a premise to a conclusion c :

Now someone could be changed by being enlightened, which could happen in this imparting of knowlege. It's in Romans, 10:17, and it says "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." So it must be valuable, accoding to God, that it is good to hear about this topic, because it can lead to faith.

Sometimes even sarcasm from a non-believer can lead to an opportunity to give testimony.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Hey, it's no different than chopping up some wood, cooking your meal and carving a piece of wood into an idol and using the last light from the fire to pray to it.

Firstly, you'll find that if you replace the word "idol" with "crucifix," there's really no difference at all.

And secondly...boy are you weird!

 

[Timebuilder]

Firstly, you'll find that if you replace the word "idol" with "crucifix," there's really no difference at all.

You would only be tempted to make that replacement if you didn't know the difference between an idol and a symbol.

Super 80 described an abbreviated event that describes the limited view of Man and the conceptions of deity that he creates himself, instead of accepting the truth that the one REAL God has set into motion, according to His plan. (That's HIS plan, not our plan, not anyone else's plan).

Leviticus 26:1 says "'You shall not make idols for yourselves; neither a carved image nor a sacred pillar shall you rear up for yourselves; nor shall you set up an engraved stone in your land, to bow down to it; for I am the Lord your God."

A crucifix is a symbol, like the fish symbol was to the early Christians. The cross is a reminder of the sacrifice that was made on our behalf. You don't "pray to it."

 

[Super 80]

there's really no difference at all.

ISA 44:14 He cut down cedars,
or perhaps took a cypress or oak.
He let it grow among the trees of the forest,
or planted a pine, and the rain made it grow.

ISA 44:15 It is man's fuel for burning;
some of it he takes and warms himself,
he kindles a fire and bakes bread.
But he also fashions a god and worships it;
he makes an idol and bows down to it.

ISA 44:16 Half of the wood he burns in the fire;
over it he prepares his meal,
he roasts his meat and eats his fill.
He also warms himself and says,
"Ah! I am warm; I see the fire."

ISA 44:17 From the rest he makes a god, his idol;
he bows down to it and worships.
He prays to it and says,
"Save me; you are my god."

So, this isn't so weird after all is it?

 

[Typhoon1244]

Fascinating...and has no bearing, that I know of, on my jest about arguing with the garage door.

Arguing with an inanimate object = worshiping wooden idols.

Sorry, Super, I don't get it.

 

[Super 80]

Arguing with an inanimate object = worshiping wooden idols.
Sorry, Super, I don't get it.

Well you used your garage door to emphasize the futility of discussing religion. I then used it to equate to idol worship since you went to "speak" to it.

Since your garage door you went to talk to can't hear you, or speak, much less save you, it is a perfect analogy to pagan idol worship. Both share the same attributes.

Pagan idol worship is very modern. It's just that we displace our worship from a fashioned figure to any other inanimate object, like our wealth, our possessions, or anything that we look to to give us a measure of security or safety or happiness.

God condemns all of it. You cannot serve God and Mammon.

Meanwhile, believers in Christ have the indwelling Holy Spirit that does speak to us through our hearts.

 

[skyking1976]

Fascinating...and has no bearing, that I know of, on my jest about arguing with the garage door.

My garage door is the correct garage door. Thou shalt not worship any garage doors but mine. Use no carports lest thine batteries shalt runneth out in thine garage door opener and thou willst have to enter through thine sideth dooreth...eth... eth ... eth ....

 

[Typhoon1244]

Super 80,

You're either pulling my leg, or you're sick. There's no third possibility.

(I'm going to assume you're pulling my leg... )

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

Since your garage door you went to talk to can't hear you, or speak, much less save you, it is a perfect analogy to pagan idol worship. Both share the same attributes

since jesus never listens, much less talks back, equating him to the garage door is a perfect example

at least garage doors are merciless and vengeful when it comes to people and small pets that get in their way

 

[Super 80]

You're either pulling my leg, or your[sic] sick. There's no third possibility.

Ah, we're back to name calling.

You said you were going to debate religion with your garage door.

I then asked you to ask it to save you and paraphrased Isaiah as an example of the futility of treating inanimate objects as living creatures.

You said you don't get it. I think C is once again the correct answer.