skyking1976
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Where'd "Death By Jesus" go?
- Thread starter skyking1976
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Northern Lights
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enigma
good ol boy
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I looked about an hour ago and found that it showed 27 pages. I then went to page 13 or 14 (the last pages I had read) and started reading. I got to about page 15 and gave up once again. Then I decide to go to the last page and the page came up as unavailable. The program then noted that I should contact the webmaster if I needed more. Maybe it just self destructed, as I doubt that it had 27 pages.
I had just about given up on it. I do wish that I had managed to save some of the posts, man there was some deep stuff there. Way too deep for me. Every time I get to thinking that I am intelligent, someone starts a thread like that and I get lost and humble.
cheers,
enigma
I had just about given up on it. I do wish that I had managed to save some of the posts, man there was some deep stuff there. Way too deep for me. Every time I get to thinking that I am intelligent, someone starts a thread like that and I get lost and humble.
cheers,
enigma
Super 80
Rube Goldberg device
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Well there went 97 posts. I'm back to 110, 111 with this one.
Well, there were over 7000 views on 651+ posts.
P.S. Now I see where you can delete a post, and Chperplt deleted his first one which deletes the thread.
Oh well. We know return you to the usual banter about aviation without talking about Jesus.
Well, there were over 7000 views on 651+ posts.
P.S. Now I see where you can delete a post, and Chperplt deleted his first one which deletes the thread.
Oh well. We know return you to the usual banter about aviation without talking about Jesus.
Last edited:
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chperplt
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Chperplt was tired of being told he was going to hell because he wasn't a Christian.
Chperplt was tired of reading the words of people who have so little in their lives that they have to grasp a hold of something and try to make everyone else like them.
Chperplt forwarded death by jesus to everyone in his address book and thinks it is a great joke.
Chperplt was tired of reading the words of people who have so little in their lives that they have to grasp a hold of something and try to make everyone else like them.
Chperplt forwarded death by jesus to everyone in his address book and thinks it is a great joke.
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JBcrjca
Well-known member
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I always though Chperplt seemed like a cool guy, and this proves it. Thank you sir for removing it; I got tired of seeing it at the top every time I looked at the board. I initially read about 15 posts, but I couldn't understand any of it. It was like reading a foreign language, for the most part. But 650 posts?? Doesn't anyone have better things to do than argue religion on the internet? Some guys swim way too deep in the pool, I just prefer to wade in the shallow end....or better yet, maybe stay in the hot tub. It's everyones own choice, and nobody should have someone elses views forced upon them.
Typhoon1244
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Super 80
Rube Goldberg device
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The fish is an interesting symbol. It was used by the first century church to identify themselves to each other without raising the ire of the secular and religious leaders of the day. Fish in Greek, ichthus was used by the early Christians where each letter in the Greek stood for another word which basically spelled out a simple Gospel message. Proving once again that playing around with words has been something people have done for a long time.
i = iesous, Jesus
ch (or x) = christos (or xistos), Christ
th = theo, God's
u = huios, Son
s = soter, Savior
i = iesous, Jesus
ch (or x) = christos (or xistos), Christ
th = theo, God's
u = huios, Son
s = soter, Savior
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Super 80
Rube Goldberg device
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- 315
“Since there are probably hundreds of different religions, all claiming that theirs is the "one and only", what makes yours the best?”
All the other religions in the world tell you what you have to do to gain eternal bliss. Whether presented as pillars, or tenements, or the 613 laws in the Torah, there are a myriad of rules, precepts, and proscriptions that the reverent must do to attain heaven/nirvana. Only Christianity says that it is done for you. If you believe in your heart, and say with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, you have your salvation through Him. He does the work. Now the saying part is easy, but God judges the heart. Here is where the hypocrites are separated out. We may be fooled, but God is not. If you are sincere in your belief, you will be saved.
Ken Boa and Larry Moody looked at your question and saw that the exclusive claim of Christianity had an underlying assumption. They summed up your question as: Isn’t Christianity too narrow? They then give three possible answers. (The material is paraphrased, and/or quoted and added to with my own words.)
First, is that Christianity is not narrow. When you have the modern liberal mainstream position that nothing can be proved, they espouse a general feel-good position that there is an all-loving God. With a broad accepting view of religion that says that anyone who sincerely seeks God will attain it. It says that it doesn’t matter how you get to God as long as you get there.
But this goes against the specific claims of Christ and his disciples. Christ is unique among the founders of religion, in that He did not say that His way was right, but that He was the way to God. Christ claimed not only exclusivity but also divinity. Christ backed up his assertions by ascribing attributes of God to Himself; eternality, omnipotence, right to be worshipped, forgiveness of sin, and the right to sit in judgment.
The second is that Christianity is narrow and wrong. Critics of the Bible, agnostics, and atheists hold this view. While they point to Bible as flawed, the subject of various posts here on this thread by this author, their philosophy is in direct opposition to an absolute God who has authority over them. In their rebellion, they will attack Christianity to support their own selfishness.
This view can be summarized by its assumptions. A. There are millions of sincere worshippers whose religions lay outside the confines given by Christianity. B. Truth is determined by one’s belief, so even if Christ were right for us, it doesn’t mean He is right for everyone. C. Christianity is wrong because its exclusiveness makes it intolerant of other viewpoints.
A. In reply, just because someone is sincere, doesn’t mean they can’t be wrong. We can be sincere and right or we can be sincere and wrong. We have examples of poor people who are sincere but misguided, people who are swayed by cultists, charlatans, and legalistic rhetoricians. They have a misplaced faith. Sincerity does not make something right or wrong. Truth must be determined apart from sincerity.
B. The second assumes that truth is determined by one’s beliefs or lack of beliefs. To say that truth is what is true for that person, makes truth relative, and so logically, truth is no longer true. Truth must be an absolute outside of the individual’s realm of perception in order to be true. That is why we seek the truth. Similarly, the truth of Christianity cannot be determined on the basis of belief or lack of belief, but on the basis of objective criteria.
C. The third assumes that anything that is narrow is wrong. Most of us were brought up to believe that tolerance is a virtue. But when you open wide the door for tolerance, there is then no standard for truth. People who raise this objective may tell you for example, that some people enjoy raw oysters while others find them repulsive. Or they may say that the Ivy League look is sought after by some and rejected by others. The illustrations are always subjective decisions based on personal preferences and tastes. But the assumption that all truth is determined this way is false. Something is not objectively true just because someone does or doesn’t believe in it. To say that truth is relative, and supported only by one’s belief ignores the objective nature of an absolute. On this basis I can understand why people think that Christianity is too exclusive.
But the assumption behind this objection is not valid. Life is replete of examples of narrow and true. Our profession is one of them. We can’t land anyway we like, gear up, in a deep stall, sideways, upside down (although Fed Ex did it with an MD11, didn’t they?), in the grass, or nose first. We have a narrow band of parameters to meet just to continue the approach. Part I and the FAR’s are narrow, and as they apply to us, true. We can’t each determine our truth in flying. Moreover, no matter what man-made rules we operate under, we fly these aerospace vehicles under the laws of physics and aerodynamics that are external to us. These laws are absolute. They are narrow, and true. To hold a personal philosophy of relative truth appears to contradict how we conduct our professional lives.
To get to the law of non-contradiction, let’s look at the major religions. The Jew believes he gains moral life through belief in a monolithic God and living a moral life as described by the Torah. In addition there is also the Talmud, which adds greatly to it. The Torah repeatedly states that the LORD is salvation. And those Jews who believed in the LORD will be saved. Since Jesus came, the prophecy has been fulfilled, and Jesus as LORD says that you must believe in Him. There is no assurance of salvation simply by following the law, as its standard is perfection. Salvation on this basis will be determined by man’s efforts. God did not set a covenant with the Jew that He would grant life eternal. But He did say that He would make a new covenant as recorded by the prophets (one example would be Ezekiel 16:59-63) that would. These prophecies point to Jesus. God has said that He would draw the Jews through fire and the remnant would be saved. Salvation is not for the Jew only but also for the Gentile God says in Isaiah (49:6). To the Gentile, God says that salvation would come through the Jews, meaning Jesus.
The Muslim tries to earn his own salvation by believing in the five doctrines of Islam and by performing the duties of the Five Pillars of faith. Bur it all depends on his behavior, so he cannot be sure. The Hindu believes he achieves his desired state of oneness with Brahman through a series of reincarnations. The law of karma says a Hindu reaps in the next life the rewards or punishments of the present life. The Buddhist believes he earns his own release from the endless chain of reincarnations by following the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path. All seek salvation through human effort, but the effort is different for each.
Christianity recognizes the frustration and futility of man’s own efforts and declares that man’s salvation rests in the provision and grace of God. The major religions differ in their perspectives of God, man’s destiny, and the means of salvation, and they are all narrow as well. They all claim to be right. Christianity is not the only religion with exclusive claims.
The law of non-contradiction says that if two statements contradict each other, then only one of them is true, or both of them are wrong. They cannot both be true in an absolute sense at the same time. Since the major religions contradict each other, we can apply the law of non-contradiction. Either one of them is right and the rest wrong or they are all wrong. They cannot all be right.
The final answer to “Isn’t Christianity too narrow?” is that Christianity is narrow and true. This leads us to an examination of Jesus Christ. If He is who He says He is, then we can answer in the affirmative. If not, we are faced with alternative that He is a liar or a lunatic. We can look at the unique claims of Jesus and His credentials to show you that His works authenticated his words. This then establishes His claim as LORD.
All the other religions in the world tell you what you have to do to gain eternal bliss. Whether presented as pillars, or tenements, or the 613 laws in the Torah, there are a myriad of rules, precepts, and proscriptions that the reverent must do to attain heaven/nirvana. Only Christianity says that it is done for you. If you believe in your heart, and say with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, you have your salvation through Him. He does the work. Now the saying part is easy, but God judges the heart. Here is where the hypocrites are separated out. We may be fooled, but God is not. If you are sincere in your belief, you will be saved.
Ken Boa and Larry Moody looked at your question and saw that the exclusive claim of Christianity had an underlying assumption. They summed up your question as: Isn’t Christianity too narrow? They then give three possible answers. (The material is paraphrased, and/or quoted and added to with my own words.)
First, is that Christianity is not narrow. When you have the modern liberal mainstream position that nothing can be proved, they espouse a general feel-good position that there is an all-loving God. With a broad accepting view of religion that says that anyone who sincerely seeks God will attain it. It says that it doesn’t matter how you get to God as long as you get there.
But this goes against the specific claims of Christ and his disciples. Christ is unique among the founders of religion, in that He did not say that His way was right, but that He was the way to God. Christ claimed not only exclusivity but also divinity. Christ backed up his assertions by ascribing attributes of God to Himself; eternality, omnipotence, right to be worshipped, forgiveness of sin, and the right to sit in judgment.
The second is that Christianity is narrow and wrong. Critics of the Bible, agnostics, and atheists hold this view. While they point to Bible as flawed, the subject of various posts here on this thread by this author, their philosophy is in direct opposition to an absolute God who has authority over them. In their rebellion, they will attack Christianity to support their own selfishness.
This view can be summarized by its assumptions. A. There are millions of sincere worshippers whose religions lay outside the confines given by Christianity. B. Truth is determined by one’s belief, so even if Christ were right for us, it doesn’t mean He is right for everyone. C. Christianity is wrong because its exclusiveness makes it intolerant of other viewpoints.
A. In reply, just because someone is sincere, doesn’t mean they can’t be wrong. We can be sincere and right or we can be sincere and wrong. We have examples of poor people who are sincere but misguided, people who are swayed by cultists, charlatans, and legalistic rhetoricians. They have a misplaced faith. Sincerity does not make something right or wrong. Truth must be determined apart from sincerity.
B. The second assumes that truth is determined by one’s beliefs or lack of beliefs. To say that truth is what is true for that person, makes truth relative, and so logically, truth is no longer true. Truth must be an absolute outside of the individual’s realm of perception in order to be true. That is why we seek the truth. Similarly, the truth of Christianity cannot be determined on the basis of belief or lack of belief, but on the basis of objective criteria.
C. The third assumes that anything that is narrow is wrong. Most of us were brought up to believe that tolerance is a virtue. But when you open wide the door for tolerance, there is then no standard for truth. People who raise this objective may tell you for example, that some people enjoy raw oysters while others find them repulsive. Or they may say that the Ivy League look is sought after by some and rejected by others. The illustrations are always subjective decisions based on personal preferences and tastes. But the assumption that all truth is determined this way is false. Something is not objectively true just because someone does or doesn’t believe in it. To say that truth is relative, and supported only by one’s belief ignores the objective nature of an absolute. On this basis I can understand why people think that Christianity is too exclusive.
But the assumption behind this objection is not valid. Life is replete of examples of narrow and true. Our profession is one of them. We can’t land anyway we like, gear up, in a deep stall, sideways, upside down (although Fed Ex did it with an MD11, didn’t they?), in the grass, or nose first. We have a narrow band of parameters to meet just to continue the approach. Part I and the FAR’s are narrow, and as they apply to us, true. We can’t each determine our truth in flying. Moreover, no matter what man-made rules we operate under, we fly these aerospace vehicles under the laws of physics and aerodynamics that are external to us. These laws are absolute. They are narrow, and true. To hold a personal philosophy of relative truth appears to contradict how we conduct our professional lives.
To get to the law of non-contradiction, let’s look at the major religions. The Jew believes he gains moral life through belief in a monolithic God and living a moral life as described by the Torah. In addition there is also the Talmud, which adds greatly to it. The Torah repeatedly states that the LORD is salvation. And those Jews who believed in the LORD will be saved. Since Jesus came, the prophecy has been fulfilled, and Jesus as LORD says that you must believe in Him. There is no assurance of salvation simply by following the law, as its standard is perfection. Salvation on this basis will be determined by man’s efforts. God did not set a covenant with the Jew that He would grant life eternal. But He did say that He would make a new covenant as recorded by the prophets (one example would be Ezekiel 16:59-63) that would. These prophecies point to Jesus. God has said that He would draw the Jews through fire and the remnant would be saved. Salvation is not for the Jew only but also for the Gentile God says in Isaiah (49:6). To the Gentile, God says that salvation would come through the Jews, meaning Jesus.
The Muslim tries to earn his own salvation by believing in the five doctrines of Islam and by performing the duties of the Five Pillars of faith. Bur it all depends on his behavior, so he cannot be sure. The Hindu believes he achieves his desired state of oneness with Brahman through a series of reincarnations. The law of karma says a Hindu reaps in the next life the rewards or punishments of the present life. The Buddhist believes he earns his own release from the endless chain of reincarnations by following the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path. All seek salvation through human effort, but the effort is different for each.
Christianity recognizes the frustration and futility of man’s own efforts and declares that man’s salvation rests in the provision and grace of God. The major religions differ in their perspectives of God, man’s destiny, and the means of salvation, and they are all narrow as well. They all claim to be right. Christianity is not the only religion with exclusive claims.
The law of non-contradiction says that if two statements contradict each other, then only one of them is true, or both of them are wrong. They cannot both be true in an absolute sense at the same time. Since the major religions contradict each other, we can apply the law of non-contradiction. Either one of them is right and the rest wrong or they are all wrong. They cannot all be right.
The final answer to “Isn’t Christianity too narrow?” is that Christianity is narrow and true. This leads us to an examination of Jesus Christ. If He is who He says He is, then we can answer in the affirmative. If not, we are faced with alternative that He is a liar or a lunatic. We can look at the unique claims of Jesus and His credentials to show you that His works authenticated his words. This then establishes His claim as LORD.
TonyC
Frederick's Happy Face
- Joined
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- Posts
- 3,050
You are SOOOOOoo oo right. It really annoys me that some guy was holding a gun to my head FORCING me to read your post - - he kept mumbling something about his cousin Vinny who was doing the very same thing to you, forcing you to CLICK on a "Death by Jesus" thread and scroll through, reading post after post after post.JBcrjca said:
And I thought this was America ! !
TonyC
Frederick's Happy Face
- Joined
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- 3,050
Very interesting - - I didn't realize deleting a thread would reduce the post count - - now I know....Super 80 said:
It seems like we oughta be able to have a little more protection than that - - perhaps make deleting a thread a Moderator-only level task. Then you just have to be careful not to disagree with a moderator.
I wonder if we can apply for a refund of the donation to the tune of a penny a post?
Anyway, on a serious note: Lesson learned - - never waste time posting on a thread started by ... oops, I almost resorted to adjectives... started by chperplt.
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