When is the PinnaColaba list effective?

[mesaba13]

You never wanted our jobs huh FLYER1015?

"I used to care about Mesaba, but know, with their arrogant attitude, I'm actually looking forward to the big red stapler from Office Space. "

Unbelieveable how much you think you know about this industry and come to find out you don't even have ATP mins.

Enjoy the next 2 years in the right seat, or better yet why don't you make everyone happy and just move on.

 

[higney85]

Darn, I'm out of popcorn..

 

[Flyer1015]

You never wanted our jobs huh FLYER1015?

"I used to care about Mesaba, but know, with their arrogant attitude, I'm actually looking forward to the big red stapler from Office Space. "

Unbelieveable how much you think you know about this industry and come to find out you don't even have ATP mins.

Enjoy the next 2 years in the right seat, or better yet why don't you make everyone happy and just move on.

That quote was an out of frustration remark, with no real life value to it since no one has been stapled in recent arbitrated awards. I don't want Mesaba jobs. Heck, I was against this merger in the first place, but we pilots dont have any say. I know enough about this industry to know that Pinnacle FOs (and junior captains - that includes you higney85, so put your popcorn down) have been hosed on our Captain fence protections. Higney85, unless you're in the top 541 Captains system-wide at Pinnacle, I'd brace for a forced displacement into the right seat as all the Saabs are parked and people like bri5150 and Seven are forced to bid Captain jet seats.

And yes, I'm trying to move on. A few foreign airlines are having roadshows in the US, so obtaining an ATP on my own may prove worth it.

 

[bri5150]

That quote was an out of frustration remark, with no real life value to it since no one has been stapled in recent arbitrated awards. I don't want Mesaba jobs. Heck, I was against this merger in the first place, but we pilots dont have any say. I know enough about this industry to know that Pinnacle FOs (and junior captains - that includes you higney85, so put your popcorn down) have been hosed on our Captain fence protections. Higney85, unless you're in the top 541 Captains system-wide at Pinnacle, I'd brace for a forced displacement into the right seat as all the Saabs are parked and people like bri5150 and Seven are forced to bid Captain jet seats.

And yes, I'm trying to move on. A few foreign airlines are having roadshows in the US, so obtaining an ATP on my own may prove worth it.

In order to displace anyone, I have to be senior to them. I was placed behind the all the "200 captains", so the only ones I would even have a chance of displacing are the few below me. I guess that was the 541 number I guess...I hope the master list with people's equipment on it comes out soon. I am really interested in seeing what the guys around me are on so I can figure out where I will take a seat when the music stops. Flyer, if it's any consolation, I truly don't think I will be able to hold a jet captain spot.

 

[higney85]

In order to displace anyone, I have to be senior to them. I was placed behind the all the "200 captains", so the only ones I would even have a chance of displacing are the few below me. I guess that was the 541 number I guess...I hope the master list with people's equipment on it comes out soon. I am really interested in seeing what the guys around me are on so I can figure out where I will take a seat when the music stops. Flyer, if it's any consolation, I truly don't think I will be able to hold a jet captain spot.

You will be (for your case) pleasantly surprised. I came out as the top part of FO's on the sli, but I am a junior CA. There are now a good number junior to me that are also currently (or presently in upgrade) CA's. Time will tell on displacements/absorption due to the saabs. My concern is also the Saab displacements so we are in the same boat when this family reunion actually starts.

 

[gojo]

In order to displace anyone, I have to be senior to them. I was placed behind the all the "200 captains", so the only ones I would even have a chance of displacing are the few below me. I guess that was the 541 number I guess...I hope the master list with people's equipment on it comes out soon. I am really interested in seeing what the guys around me are on so I can figure out where I will take a seat when the music stops. Flyer, if it's any consolation, I truly don't think I will be able to hold a jet captain spot.

I think you will. did you go to a road show? we are not below all jet captains. In fact there are about 90 below us. Higney is one of them.

 

[bri5150]

Yeah, but there are 90 guys above me that aren't in jets either. I am sure some won't go, but who knows? I guess we will find out in the next 6-9 months or sooner.

 

[Flyer1015]

bri, there are plenty of Pinnalce guys above the 541 number that fell in category 2. Many CRJ-200 Captains are below you, and I'd venture to say we have 600+ CRJ-200 Captains at 9E. We can lose it all the way to 541 positions. As already mentioned above bri, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. The rest of us Pinnacle FOs and junior Pinnacle Captains are pretty much in the "hosed" category.

 

[higney85]

bri, there are plenty of Pinnalce guys above the 541 number that fell in category 2. Many CRJ-200 Captains are below you, and I'd venture to say we have 600+ CRJ-200 Captains at 9E. We can lose it all the way to 541 positions. As already mentioned above bri, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. The rest of us Pinnacle FOs and junior Pinnacle Captains are pretty much in the "hosed" category.

Not necessarily. It's a quota, not a fence. The issue of upgrades and displacements are different issues. For upgrades it is a ratio when filling vacancies once the quota is reached (it's a min for said equipment). So while our guys feel "they get our upgrades" the mesaba and colgan guys farther down the list have a potential to upgrade as they planned as well. With the hiring the company is doing and the guys/gals leaving (already- before the supposed "wave") these quotas will quickly become ratios. Looking at the numbers and talking to our merger guys it doesn't appear, on paper, to be something that will impact all 3 groups for 5 years.

The displacements are different in that they may come at a considerably quicker and more short term rate. In the event that there is the massive XJ Saab displacement in the near future (reality) the atmosphere of bumping becomes very possible. For example, if Bri is senior to me and is displaced he can bid the -200. If he is senior to anyone on the -200 in that base he can have it. In DTW he WOULD have it over me being senior to me while I am on the equip in that base. It now becomes the issue of the company either absorbing the extra CA (me) or bumping me out to my next pref that I can hold. There are 2 significant issues with the bump in relation to the company. 1- there is a FULL training cycle for the new CA (Bri). In this case it would be MANY CA's in the displacment and although the saabs would already be gone the CA's going to new equip are now "lost" on the line for at least a couple months while training. 2- If I am displaced I would also be in training too. There is a trickle down effect that would in essence remove MORE pilots from the line for months and leave a short situation with a ratio of more pilots to A/C. Being that we are so short now and expecting movement it would take another economic storm for the company NOT to simply absorb. While this example is with just Bri and I, there are potentially HUNDREDS of pilots who would move around in secondaries. That is a significant cost to the company, and a potential staffing crisis. A displacement is a threat to all (it's never looked at as a "good" thing to see posted), but I don't see the company taking it lightly with 36 crew positions and 3000 pilots.

Without the hard numbers and not being able to predict the future, it's hard to make factual based statements on the entire situation. What you can say is in the event of the Saab CA's being displaced at once the next 2-3 months for them in training could very well cover attrition during the time period or simply allow the company to be ahead of the staffing model. That isn't necessarily a bad thing and also something that most regionals haven't had in a long time, if ever. Look at the current situation at almost all carriers- they are short. Trying to push everyone backwards, when the top positions are being vacated only leaves a huge gap that will bite back violently.

That's enough for my sunday morning soap box, I think the point(s) are made. Until we see the vacancies an displacements everyone seems to think more negative than positive. We can't change the outcome. Update your standing bid and wait for the dominos to fall.

 

[sinkrate]

In order to displace anyone, I have to be senior to them.

I'm not so sure about that. Read point 5 in the 'Conditions and Restrictions' carefully. If I am reading this correctly Displacements will be done with the same ratio as vacancy awards.

If an SF3 pilot is diplaced out of his position,
and there are fewer than 100 former Mesaba pilots holding CRJ CA
and there are more than 541 former PCL pilots holding CRJ CA

The SF3 pilot will displace the most junior PCL CA, without regard to seniority. In this case the SF3 pilot can displace some one senior to him on the ISL. If this is due to a reduction in staffing the company may not have the option to absorb the position without violating the Agreement.