When is the PinnaColaba list effective?

[xjgearbtch]

I think the more likely scenario is that XJ changes it's procedures to match 9E like NWA did with the transition to DL. Maybe a sim some ground school for an abbreviated indoc, and a few legs of OE

Mesaba will be phasing in 9E procedures overtime into our POM. Then the Mesaba pilots will go thru a checking phase in the sim. After completion you will be "pinnicalized" . There will be a notation on the Dispatch Release right next to the CAT II notation. I've read thru their 900 POM and I do like some of their procedures. But their CAT II is a cluster f*ck.

 

[Inconceivable]

Mesaba will be phasing in 9E procedures overtime into our POM. Then the Mesaba pilots will go thru a checking phase in the sim. After completion you will be "pinnicalized" . There will be a notation on the Dispatch Release right next to the CAT II notation. I've read thru their 900 POM and I do like some of their procedures. But their CAT II is a cluster f*ck.

What? You don't believe in transferring control at 50' AGL and 130 kias?

Wuss.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Mesaba will be phasing in 9E procedures overtime into our POM. Then the Mesaba pilots will go thru a checking phase in the sim. After completion you will be "pinnicalized" . There will be a notation on the Dispatch Release right next to the CAT II notation. I've read thru their 900 POM and I do like some of their procedures. But their CAT II is a cluster f*ck.

Did they say anything about OE, or just a PC in the sim?

 

[MACH-TUCK]

I wouldn't call it an oral. The brief for the PC/Loft normally has some questions involved as you discuss current training points. Nothing to worry about.

It can turn into an oral if you don't answer some of the first simple questions right, or your manuals aren't perfect. I just had my PC a couple of weeks ago and it was about an hour long oral. The FO I was doing it with was struggling and kept digging himself into a hole so it ended up being longer than normal. Also, having less sims available means that you have around an hour to kill before you can get in the box.

 

[dingo222]

Whoah, whoah, whoah...9E pilots need to take an oral every year? This merger keeps getting better and better.

colgan is every six months for both seats. annual training cycle includes one pc and one pt. both include an oral

 

[CptMurf]

colgan is every six months for both seats. annual training cycle includes one pc and one pt. both include an oral

XJ hasn't had orals for PCs in years. They get them on the initial type, but the rest of the time it is written in lieu of. There are exception, but very rare.

 

[DoinTime]

XJ hasn't had orals for PCs in years. They get them on the initial type, but the rest of the time it is written in lieu of. There are exception, but very rare.

Well then get ready to start giving oral. :beer:

 

[Flyer1015]

Well then get ready to start giving oral. :beer:

With the way the fenced protections are, it will be 9E FOs who will be giving orals for some time to come. Lucky for me, I've been used to getting bent over from Pinnacle. It hurts the first few times, after a while you get used to the Pinnaclization. And there's only enough lube for 541 9E pilots.

 

[bri5150]

With the way the fenced protections are, it will be 9E FOs who will be giving orals for some time to come. Lucky for me, I've been used to getting bent over from Pinnacle. It hurts the first few times, after a while you get used to the Pinnaclization. And there's only enough lube for 541 9E pilots.

You were put in the top group of FO's, above at least half of the Mesaba and all of the Colgan FO's. Life can't be that bad.

 

[Flyer1015]

You were put in the top group of FO's, above at least half of the Mesaba and all of the Colgan FO's. Life can't be that bad.

For bidding schedules, yes, life isn't bad. But I'm here for movement. I'd like to upgrade and get time that majors look at. Even if I'm above Colgan FOs, those Colgan FOs are pretty much guaranteed their Q upgrades. From the current 149 Q CAs, 193 slots are protected. No matter what, those Colgan FOs will be upgrading and life for them will be as usual until their fences are filled. Same for Mesaba. They get to fill their fences first. Meanwhile, not only is Pinnacle already at their fence numbers, they are waaaaaaay above them.

 

[CptMurf]

You've convinced yourself that you know the specific definition of "announced" and who is able to do the announcing. I'm not sold on the idea that the list has been announced yet.

I think the transition from Mesaba jet to pinnacle jet is about a 3 week program plus OE.

Guess it WAS officially "announced", because the latest ALPA email states the Colgan vacancy is open to EVERYONE.

 

[Flyer1015]

Guess it WAS officially "announced", because the latest ALPA email states the Colgan vacancy is open to EVERYONE.

Actually, ALPA Legal is looking into determing what the date of effectiveness will be.

 

[CptMurf]

Actually, ALPA Legal is looking into determing what the date of effectiveness will be.

What is it with 9E and dates. Look, if we want to move forward in this, the vacancy will be open to anyone. I realize 9E guys want to delay this as long as possible, but if we fight over this it's going to make life even more miserable. The ISL was announced and per the LOA vacancies are open. The company realizes this to be true too. Update your pref bids, because a multi-class bid will arrive soon.

 

[higney85]

Actually flyer is right. National and the company are awaiting clarification on the effective date. It doesn't effect me per say, but I asked this question to a few in multiple areas and all had the same "waiting for clarification" response. I'd assume it would be effective but there is no date listed and a 60 day period still over all our heads for challenges. I haven't heard of any true challenges but some clarification is needed. This isn't a 9E thing, at this point it's becoming corp's problem.

 

[CptMurf]

Actually flyer is right. National and the company are awaiting clarification on the effective date. It doesn't effect me per say, but I asked this question to a few in multiple areas and all had the same "waiting for clarification" response. I'd assume it would be effective but there is no date listed and a 60 day period still over all our heads for challenges. I haven't heard of any true challenges but some clarification is needed. This isn't a 9E thing, at this point it's becoming corp's problem.

Challenges to the effective date, and whether the ISL is in effect are two different animals. I see your point, we want a definitive date, so we know when the 60 window and 5 year fences are up. But that date has nothing to do with accepting the ISL in bidding currently open vacancies.

 

[DoinTime]

Challenges to the effective date, and whether the ISL is in effect are two different animals. I see your point, we want a definitive date, so we know when the 60 window and 5 year fences are up. But that date has nothing to do with accepting the ISL in bidding currently open vacancies.

Answer this Murf....If the company has not received the ISL from ALPA then how can they do a joint vacancy? Right now we have an unexecuted award from Bloch. Until its executed, its not in effect. I'm not sure how you think that it would be a good idea to have it any other way.

 

[CptMurf]

Answer this Murf....If the company has not received the ISL from ALPA then how can they do a joint vacancy? Right now we have an unexecuted award from Bloch. Until its executed, its not in effect. I'm not sure how you think that it would be a good idea to have it any other way.

Actually, I'm thinking how bad it could get if there are vacancies that are filled outside of the ISL. XJ would have serious grounds for a grievance in this. I have no idea how the award would be filled. Probably not and just be delayed, and that's fine. Just not an award without honoring it.

 

[higney85]

Actually, I'm thinking how bad it could get if there are vacancies that are filled outside of the ISL. XJ would have serious grounds for a grievance in this. I have no idea how the award would be filled. Probably not and just be delayed, and that's fine. Just not an award without honoring it.

Let's not start the "they took er jobz" routine quite yet. I'm hopeful that in the next week and before any more vacancies close they will figure out at least what's right and wrong. Our lec's are combining over the next month and will take up the issue on behalf of everyone. Clarification is needed for all, nobody is trying to plot as the list is out and we are all moving on. I think the easiest way to look at this is in the mindset that we all crossed the finish line of the marathon... We see where we ranked, feel we each could have done better, and after knowing the direction for 26.2 miles we are somehow not sure where the kegs are at the hospitality tent.

A little patience won't kill us.

Now where is the beer?!

 

[mesaba13]

Exactly!

 

[CptMurf]

Let's not start the "they took er jobz" routine quite yet. I'm hopeful that in the next week and before any more vacancies close they will figure out at least what's right and wrong. Our lec's are combining over the next month and will take up the issue on behalf of everyone. Clarification is needed for all, nobody is trying to plot as the list is out and we are all moving on. I think the easiest way to look at this is in the mindset that we all crossed the finish line of the marathon... We see where we ranked, feel we each could have done better, and after knowing the direction for 26.2 miles we are somehow not sure where the kegs are at the hospitality tent.

A little patience won't kill us.

Now where is the beer?!

I agree...mostly. Still stuck on this though. The process agreement laid out how vacancies would be handled throughout the merger, both before and after the ISL. Now it's out, and so is a vacancy. The process agreement should be followed, just as agreed upon. The fact that there is not a definitive date for the 60 day window, or the 5 year fences, should not matter. That date can be argued for, well... 52 or so more days with no consequences. The vacancy is out and closes soon. If the process agreement is not followed than there are individuals that will be awarded positions out of seniority order. Now ALPA does own the list, and maybe they haven't "released" it to management, but management implies that it is going to fill positions soon. They should be filled by the pilots in ISL order.

Patience I have, I don't care if the award is delayed or cancelled. I just have issues if our MECs allow it to be awarded out of seniority order. I don't subscribe to an idea of, "let them have this one" or "we'll work out the details later" the process is already defined an in place.