When is the PinnaColaba list effective?

[Flyer1015]

so what you are saying is that the SLI is not effective. good, lets start over. If this sli followed alpa merger policy it would not have 2001 hires behind 2007/8 hires. un f'ing believable

Did you read read the conditions? There is a 60-day window for our merger committee members to address potential issues with this list. Some of that may include the MOU pilots and Pinnacle's extremel low fenced protections of 541 Captain slots that were taken at a time when our staffing was low and Pinnale had not hired/upgraded. I can see this being disputed, and we have 60 days for this to happen.

I wouldn't sing kumbaya just yet. This list stuff isn't over.

 

[Flyer1015]

so what you are saying is that the SLI is not effective. good, lets start over. If this sli followed alpa merger policy it would not have 2001 hires behind 2007/8 hires. un f'ing believable

I don't see any DOHs on the ISL. At what point exactly did this happen? Is this at group 3?

 

[higney85]

I am *personally* expecting a memo from mgmt this week on their plans going forward in regards to this list. There is movement of A/C and I know they have been working on the "training" to bring it all together. As I understand things it's a joint process among all three groups (no bragging points for any group) to get this process streamlined, done, and progressing along. I know 9E is short and from the sounds of it every regional is short currently.

 

[Flyer1015]

I am *personally* expecting a memo from mgmt this week on their plans going forward in regards to this list. There is movement of A/C and I know they have been working on the "training" to bring it all together. As I understand things it's a joint process among all three groups (no bragging points for any group) to get this process streamlined, done, and progressing along. I know 9E is short and from the sounds of it every regional is short currently.

We were short even after Summer 2008 when stopped hiring/upgrading. We didn't do a thing until Summer 2010, and are now dearly paying for that in terms of staffing ratio fences. Screw our incompetent management! We're gonna ultimately pay that price, not them.

 

[bri5150]

"Announced" and "effective" aren't necessarily the same thing. Besides, it's amazing how quickly you want your guys to jump over to the 9E side of things before a single XJ plane is even moved here.

Funny how the section you want to use in the LOA is cut and dry, but the other part that would be detrimental to you isn't. I don't see how you can read that paragraph and say anything other than the vacancies are open to all after the SLI is "announced". I am not saying the company can do it right now, but if they can't then something has to be worked out because they will be in breach of contract. They had 4 months to figure it out. you are right, announced and effective aren't the same. That's why the paragraph is saying that the effective date is when it is announced.

 

[mesaba13]

FLYER-your management is no good , staffing is bad? I thought you guys brought everything to the table and your career expectation was rosey?

 

[Flyer1015]

Funny how the section you want to use in the LOA is cut and dry, but the other part that would be detrimental to you isn't. I don't see how you can read that paragraph and say anything other than the vacancies are open to all after the SLI is "announced". I am not saying the company can do it right now, but if they can't then something has to be worked out because they will be in breach of contract. They had 4 months to figure it out. you are right, announced and effective aren't the same. That's why the paragraph is saying that the effective date is when it is announced.

Well, that "cut and dry" section is something your union disputed to the end, way after hearings were closed. Nothing can be 'worked out.' There is no secret about this. It would take far more manpower and time at this moment to upgrade a XJ or 9L FO at Pinnacle than a Pinnacle FO. It's still 3 separate companies, and if you come here tomorrow, you're gonna be treated like a newhire as far as initial training goes (indoc, systems, etc). In most arbitrated lists involving two or more merged airlines, movement across certificates isn't instant. Think about it, if they had a vacancy for upgrades and for FOs, you'd have tons of pilots, across all 3 certificates, want to go to all different airplanes and seats. Many prop FOs want the jet FOs for higher pay, some want to upgrade onto the jets, and others want a FO-FO move. That is a whole lot of training cycles at a time we are too shortstaffed. Not only on the line (pulling a pilot out from the line to train will hurt enough), but we are short in the training section. And no one, except Pinnacle instructors and checkairman, can train a XJ or Colgan pilot to learn the Pinnacle way.

This is going to take time. As Higney85 mentioned, I expect to see a management response, and that is what will happen.

 

[Flyer1015]

FLYER-your management is no good , staffing is bad? I thought you guys brought everything to the table and your career expectation was rosey?

It was rosey. For us. Not to bring two entirely different airlines, two entirely different pilot groups, and then thrown into our training department. Our training department can barely handle us, but they do. Add 2 more airlines into that mix? No way. And many instructors/checkairmen have been hired at FDX and have left or are just waiting for a class date.

 

[jumppilot1000]

Vacancy 11-07 is out

 

[bri5150]

Well, that "cut and dry" section is something your union disputed to the end, way after hearings were closed. Nothing can be 'worked out.' There is no secret about this. It would take far more manpower and time at this moment to upgrade a XJ or 9L FO at Pinnacle than a Pinnacle FO. It's still 3 separate companies, and if you come here tomorrow, you're gonna be treated like a newhire as far as initial training goes (indoc, systems, etc). In most arbitrated lists involving two or more merged airlines, movement across certificates isn't instant. Think about it, if they had a vacancy for upgrades and for FOs, you'd have tons of pilots, across all 3 certificates, want to go to all different airplanes and seats. Many prop FOs want the jet FOs for higher pay, some want to upgrade onto the jets, and others want a FO-FO move. That is a whole lot of training cycles at a time we are too shortstaffed. Not only on the line (pulling a pilot out from the line to train will hurt enough), but we are short in the training section. And no one, except Pinnacle instructors and checkairman, can train a XJ or Colgan pilot to learn the Pinnacle way.

This is going to take time. As Higney85 mentioned, I expect to see a management response, and that is what will happen.

Seriously, your question was when does the list become effective. The answer is in that paragraph I quoted for you. Vacancies are open after the ISL is "announced". It's been announced, so the vacancies are open. If management can't do that, then they will have to compensate (money, days off, make a deal with ALPA) those Mesaba pilots that aren't awarded the 200 when the we haven't met our minimum as per the ISL. No wonder things never got done before the merger with you guys. You just roll over and say it can't be done so that's it. There is a Colgan vacancy on mymesaba already. Maybe they have something figured out. Maybe not. I guess we'll see.