When is the PinnaColaba list effective?

[Flyer1015]

Vacancy 11-07 is out

Yaaay! Prop FO openings only. Pay cut, here I come.

 

[bri5150]

Yaaay! Prop FO openings only. Pay cut, here I come.

Give me a break.

 

[Flyer1015]

Give me a break.

Jet FO to prop FO is a paycut. Anyway, this is no surprise. Mesaba and Colgan had already been doing their own hiring/training. Mesaba's website announced hiring for the Colgan side of things a lil while ago.

 

[DoinTime]

Seriously, your question was when does the list become effective. The answer is in that paragraph I quoted for you. Vacancies are open after the ISL is "announced". It's been announced, so the vacancies are open. If management can't do that, then they will have to compensate (money, days off, make a deal with ALPA) those Mesaba pilots that aren't awarded the 200 when the we haven't met our minimum as per the ISL. No wonder things never got done before the merger with you guys. You just roll over and say it can't be done so that's it. There is a Colgan vacancy on mymesaba already. Maybe they have something figured out. Maybe not. I guess we'll see.

Practically speaking there is no ISL until the list has been presented to the company. ALPA will not present the list until all parties have had a chance to review the award and get answers to any questions or concerns. The protocol agreement had a 60 day window to resolve these issues. When that process is over, ALPA will "announce" the list.

 

[CptMurf]

Practically speaking there is no ISL until the list has been presented to the company. ALPA will not present the list until all parties have had a chance to review the award and get answers to any questions or concerns. The protocol agreement had a 60 day window to resolve these issues. When that process is over, ALPA will "announce" the list.

Yet the protocol agreement also states that the ISL is in affect for vacancies when it is announced. You can't have it both ways. I would say it is in effect. If Mgmt. cannot meet training, the the vacancy should be delayed, or the pilots held under the bypass provisions for up to 90 days. Training may not be that much, especially for those that just need requal, differences, or 9E flows/calls. That training could be completed in days.

 

[bri5150]

Jet FO to prop FO is a paycut. Anyway, this is no surprise. Mesaba and Colgan had already been doing their own hiring/training. Mesaba's website announced hiring for the Colgan side of things a lil while ago.

With this vacancy, there is no way, no matter where you are, that you would be displaced. The only way you could be displaced in the near future is if you were near the bottom of the 9E list and a Saab fo (which the category was stapled behind you) which is senior to you is displaced by a realignment. Besides, you already got a 25% (based on the average) pay raise in Feb, so you should still be net ahead, right? Again, give me a break.

edit: Wait, you have another thread started about not having 250 hours PIC to get your ATP. It doesn't sound like you are gearing up for a pay cut.

 

[DoinTime]

Yet the protocol agreement also states that the ISL is in affect for vacancies when it is announced. You can't have it both ways. I would say it is in effect. If Mgmt. cannot meet training, the the vacancy should be delayed, or the pilots held under the bypass provisions for up to 90 days. Training may not be that much, especially for those that just need requal, differences, or 9E flows/calls. That training could be completed in days.

You've convinced yourself that you know the specific definition of "announced" and who is able to do the announcing. I'm not sold on the idea that the list has been announced yet.

I think the transition from Mesaba jet to pinnacle jet is about a 3 week program plus OE.

 

[Flyer1015]

With this vacancy, there is no way, no matter where you are, that you would be displaced. The only way you could be displaced in the near future is if you were near the bottom of the 9E list and a Saab fo (which the category was stapled behind you) which is senior to you is displaced by a realignment. Besides, you already got a 25% (based on the average) pay raise in Feb, so you should still be net ahead, right? Again, give me a break.

edit: Wait, you have another thread started about not having 250 hours PIC to get your ATP. It doesn't sound like you are gearing up for a pay cut.

I meant jet FO to prop FO. I have no interest in upgrading into a prop. There's no way I want to upgrade into an airplane I have zero time, at an unfamiliar base, with a brand new green FO. Maybe if I already had my ATP, I might go for it when fence allows. But I do not want my first type ride to be in a completely unfamiliar airplane I've never flown before.

And as for displacements, I know this vacancy won't cause displacements. However, my fear is next year when the Saabs are parked, the resulting reductions will mean Mesaba Saab Captains will bid Jet Captains, and because it's not a result of the SLI, instead, it's a result of the reductions. So, those guys (like you? Seven?) will bid jet Captain positions and you will hold whatever seniority allows you. Because Pinnacle has only 541 fenced protections, those 541 positions existed in Summer 2010 when we hadn't upgraded for 2 years. Today we have 600+ CRJ-200 Captains. Worse case scenario is all the bottom new Captain upgrades at Pinnacle will be forced out of the left seat, and into the right seat of the RJ. They can't go to the Q because of the fence. We can lose all our Captain seats on the -200 all the way to a minimum of just 541 slots. I think the future sucks more for junior Pinnacle Captains than it does for Mesaba Saab Captains. That having been said bri, give me a break.

 

[CptMurf]

You've convinced yourself that you know the specific definition of "announced" and who is able to do the announcing. I'm not sold on the idea that the list has been announced yet.

I think the transition from Mesaba jet to pinnacle jet is about a 3 week program plus OE.

Either way, time will tell. Those with a chance to move/upgrade should prepare their pref bids accordingly.

I only know what you all have said about 9E training. At XJ, a requal or differences would be done in about 4 days.

 

[DoinTime]

I only know what you all have said about 9E training. At XJ, a requal or differences would be done in about 4 days.

This isn't requal or differences training. You will be qualifying under a new training program for a different airline that is overseen by a different FSDO. This is no different that you quitting Mesaba and going to work for another airline. Coincidentally, that's what you'll be doing. Welcome to Pinnacle!

 

[bri5150]

This isn't requal or differences training. You will be qualifying under a new training program for a different airline that is overseen by a different FSDO. This is no different that you quitting Mesaba and going to work for another airline. Coincidentally, that's what you'll be doing. Welcome to Pinnacle!

Yes, and they have had four months to figure out how to do that. The answer to the thread's question is that the vacancies should be open right now. We don't know if the company is ready or not, but they should be ready because they are open. If they don't honor that, then there will probably be bypasses, people sitting on their ass while they figure it out, or somenoe getting 200 captain pay while they are an FO. It's not our problem the company can't honor our contract, but damn straight they are going to compensate someone when they don't follow it.

 

[Inconceivable]

Yes, and they have had four months to figure out how to do that.

Welcome to Memphis. You must be new here.

 

[bri5150]

Welcome to Memphis. You must be new here.

I know you were joking, but that is the prevailing theme with 9E. Do you guys pursue compensation when the company doesn't abide by the contract? I can't help but think that is why things got so bad. The company breaches the contract and the pilots just roll over and say that's how things are done here, so it's okay.

 

[CptMurf]

This isn't requal or differences training. You will be qualifying under a new training program for a different airline that is overseen by a different FSDO. This is no different that you quitting Mesaba and going to work for another airline. Coincidentally, that's what you'll be doing. Welcome to Pinnacle!

Then our combined airline would grind to a complete halt, and a BK follow, because it would take 11 months to train 700 pilots on a 3 week training cycle. We have had it implied in recurrent as a couple days ground school, an oral (since you to not have written in leu of), a PC, and an abbreviated OE/Line Check. And until we complete that, we can only fly with XJ people. The program timeline is up to your FSDO, and is different than any of your past training events, you cannot compare this to those. Coincidentally, I did not quit, but thank you for the warm welcome.

 

[bri5150]

...an oral (since you to not have written in leu of)...

Whoah, whoah, whoah...9E pilots need to take an oral every year? This merger keeps getting better and better.

 

[higney85]

Whoah, whoah, whoah...9E pilots need to take an oral every year? This merger keeps getting better and better.

I wouldn't call it an oral. The brief for the PC/Loft normally has some questions involved as you discuss current training points. Nothing to worry about.

 

[DoinTime]

Then our combined airline would grind to a complete halt, and a BK follow, because it would take 11 months to train 700 pilots on a 3 week training cycle. We have had it implied in recurrent as a couple days ground school, an oral (since you to not have written in leu of), a PC, and an abbreviated OE/Line Check. And until we complete that, we can only fly with XJ people. The program timeline is up to your FSDO, and is different than any of your past training events, you cannot compare this to those. Coincidentally, I did not quit, but thank you for the warm welcome.

What I'm hearing is that it's the same course that the MOU pilots went through. That was about 3-3.5 weeks with OE. Not sure how they will deal with 9E pilots who are able to bid to the Mesaba side prior to integration. Either way, seamless operations are still over 15 months away.

 

[Inconceivable]

I know you were joking, but that is the prevailing theme with 9E. Do you guys pursue compensation when the company doesn't abide by the contract? I can't help but think that is why things got so bad. The company breaches the contract and the pilots just roll over and say that's how things are done here, so it's okay.

Pursue, yes. But with the RLA and a company policy of STFU and fly, what can you do? Only a finite number of grievances can be taken to the System Board of Adjustment and termination cases, of which there are plenty, take precedence.

Spanjers and the lot were perfect gentlemen compared to these folks. For the most part they are a frightening synthesis of stupid and mean. That's not hyperbole. These are some of the most base, craven people I have ever met. I left ten years ago and it has only gotten worse since. Good luck.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

You've convinced yourself that you know the specific definition of "announced" and who is able to do the announcing. I'm not sold on the idea that the list has been announced yet.

I think the transition from Mesaba jet to pinnacle jet is about a 3 week program plus OE.

If the program was set up by our MSP FSDO, I'd agree. If it was approved by your MEM FSDO, I am guessing it's 30 minutes of study on your own, packet is in your mailbox, test online. OE is next week. HINT, our memo says drug testing this week, check your mailbox.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Then our combined airline would grind to a complete halt, and a BK follow, because it would take 11 months to train 700 pilots on a 3 week training cycle. We have had it implied in recurrent as a couple days ground school, an oral (since you to not have written in leu of), a PC, and an abbreviated OE/Line Check. And until we complete that, we can only fly with XJ people. The program timeline is up to your FSDO, and is different than any of your past training events, you cannot compare this to those. Coincidentally, I did not quit, but thank you for the warm welcome.

I think the more likely scenario is that XJ changes it's procedures to match 9E like NWA did with the transition to DL. Maybe a sim some ground school for an abbreviated indoc, and a few legs of OE